Keir Starmer's time is up
- Thread starter agricola
- Start date
That's not a real story is it? The tories have a majority of 80, no Labour bill is going to pass - it'd be a story if it did.
You're stuck in 2015 - 2019, when there was sometimes a chance of the government losing a vote. The only reason Labour proposed this bill in the first place is so they can make memes for the next two years with pictures of sad nurses saying 'the tories voted to kill your heroic nurses' anyway.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
You seem to forget that starmer himself gave this story a hefty shove towards the rabbit hole by sacking RLB. Curiouser and Curiouser...
Supine
Newt Member
They proposed it because it was a good idea. It didn’t get through but it’s one of many messages Labour need to give about how they would lead. Just what’s needed in the long run.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Maybe what they need to do, given that Labour won't win a single meaningful vote in Parliament* is to begin thinking about ways to resist that are outside parliament. Starmer is incapable of that of course, just as Corbyn was in the end.
I agree, they proposed it to send a message. Not in any hope of winning, just to say 'this is what we'd like to do.' fine - but it isn't a story that they lost, and no-one is obliged to cover some Labour no-hope bill losing just because it's nice about nurses. They're going to lose every vote for the next 5 years.
Supine
Newt Member
That’s not the job of the leader of the opposition. You can organise it though if you want.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
The irony is, you are probably closer to Corbyn on that point than you ever thought possible.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Really? It's simple as that - anyone can organise it just by wanting to?
As to what the job of the leader of the opposition is, it's surely way beyond parliament. Labour cannot actually do anything in parliament aside from making speeches most people will ignore. Is it not also their job to build movements and alliances for change?
They might even think about causing some trouble even. Showing some passion and commitment. Just a thought.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
As it is Starmer seems depressingly more and more like a dull version of Blair.
Vote for us. We'll be better managers than them.
Vote for us. We'll be better managers than them.
ska invita
back on the other side
tbf they did get that amendment passed about forrin NHS workers not having to pay extra for access to the NHS
and also summer school dinner vouchers
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Not easy for me to give an honest assessment of Starmer's political persona, but he does have the feel of being a dogged, clear headed senior law officer (not surprisingly) or just about cabinet material. Somebody who isn't going to fuck things up, but won't win converts. But it's his record shaping Labour's brexit policy that really shows he's got little chance of winning back Labour's lost seats.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Wasn't that a certain left sided attacking player?tbf they did get that amendment passed about forrin NHS workers not having to pay extra for access to the NHS
and also summer school dinner vouchers
When were they put to the vote?tbf they did get that amendment passed about forrin NHS workers not having to pay extra for access to the NHS
and also summer school dinner vouchers
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
They lost that vote three days ago.
ska invita
back on the other side
aren't amendments voted on? i wasnt paying attention tbh
anyhow i thought they managed to get a couple of u-turns one way or another
oh whats that? did something not pass in the end?
Supine
Newt Member
u turns from labour and the press making Boris look like a cnut.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Apropos of absolutely nothing at all, I was just looking at something on Starmer for another thread and just realised his wife is Jewish. Don't worry, I'm not looking for rabbit holes, but AS will be pretty important to him - his kids are being raised in the Jewish faith. If nothing else it's probably in the mix over why he was so quick off the mark on RLB (all happened in a day I think).
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
The one on reports of bullying and harassment in parliament
Rees-Mogg loses vote to let MPs debate bullying claims
MPs and women’s groups said proposal would have weakened efforts to stop harassment
That was a free vote.The one on reports of bullying and harassment in parliament
Rees-Mogg loses vote to let MPs debate bullying claims
MPs and women’s groups said proposal would have weakened efforts to stop harassmentwww.theguardian.com
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Well, they had started the campaign on it in the first place. Proposed by my MP who has campaigned on it since being elected. Rashford’s campaign didn’t come out of nowhere.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
John Terry in his kit ready to pick up the trophy.
ska invita
back on the other side
in case anyone has the energy to talk about this...from reports it sounds like he was happy to let the initial retweet slide, in that they wrote a new tweet together "clarifying" wthat had happened etc. seemed like that was all done and dusted...and then reports suggest that second tweet brought new pressure to fire her (from who i dont know), which he capitulated to
...?
Thats my impression of the bits of news about this - seems he wouldve been happy to let it slide, but then all of a sudden extra pressure come on top, and he caved in to that
??
if so it paints a slightly different picture of Starmer's instincts on this
ultimately, whatever, same difference really, it is what it is
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Thanks for the detail. To be honest, I think I'd have preferred the idea of an angry Starmer thinking about his kids and booting her out or something than what seems to have happened, as you suggest. Anyway, I've probably derailed the thread from the bigger qs with this sideshow on his family, so I'll get the fuck to bed.
Supine
Newt Member
many facts or just reports suggested from unknown sources?
Humberto
Justice is order
I don't believe Peake or Long-Bailey hate Jews. But sooner or later we are going to find out that this planet needs a future and that only the left can offer the way forward. Why? Conservatism is about continuing and entrenching the status quo. i.e. Keep the rich rich and safe. Through force. The left of Labour needs to foresake the anti-imperialism stuff as its totem. Getting bogged down in the same old stuff looks tired and clumsy. It needs to have an element of positivity and agility.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I know I'm going back a few pages now, but...
My daughter's experiences of racism and (especially) homophobia are vastly different to mine. It was a much bigger deal to come out in the 90s, for example. I've had to try to explain that to my daughter.
But we had student grants, student loans were small, and if you had help from your parents or a pretty good job you could probably get a home with a mortgage. If you couldn't afford that, you could at least afford to rent a shared house or even a flat without breaking the bank.
Now kids don't just need a few grand from their parents towards the mortgage, they need £50k plus. You need £1.5k just to put down a deposit, pay fees and pay the first six weeks' rent on a rented room in the outskirts of London, and that's probably a conservative estimate. The chances of them getting social housing is even lower than it was for me in the very late 90s, and it was hard enough then. They have to go to uni to get jobs that people used to get with just GCSEs, and they have to go into debt to do that.
You talked about people comparing things to the 60/70s, but I'm comparing things to the 90s, when my daughter was born (I was 22 when she was born; she's about to turn 22). The 60s is the time when the grandparents of most of today's kids came of age, so you've got your timelines wrong.
The 90s wasn't a golden age but it is harder for young adults now. Yeah, they have more TVs but they have less potential to live in a secure home.
My daughter's experiences of racism and (especially) homophobia are vastly different to mine. It was a much bigger deal to come out in the 90s, for example. I've had to try to explain that to my daughter.
But we had student grants, student loans were small, and if you had help from your parents or a pretty good job you could probably get a home with a mortgage. If you couldn't afford that, you could at least afford to rent a shared house or even a flat without breaking the bank.
Now kids don't just need a few grand from their parents towards the mortgage, they need £50k plus. You need £1.5k just to put down a deposit, pay fees and pay the first six weeks' rent on a rented room in the outskirts of London, and that's probably a conservative estimate. The chances of them getting social housing is even lower than it was for me in the very late 90s, and it was hard enough then. They have to go to uni to get jobs that people used to get with just GCSEs, and they have to go into debt to do that.
You talked about people comparing things to the 60/70s, but I'm comparing things to the 90s, when my daughter was born (I was 22 when she was born; she's about to turn 22). The 60s is the time when the grandparents of most of today's kids came of age, so you've got your timelines wrong.
The 90s wasn't a golden age but it is harder for young adults now. Yeah, they have more TVs but they have less potential to live in a secure home.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yep.
The leader of the opposition (and indeed the parliamentary Labour party) are pretty much irrelevant and redundant for the next 5 years.
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