Keir Starmer's time is up

[Puddy_Tat]

Fucking just googled 'Laura Norder'

minister of state at the home office, with responsibility for policing, 1983-85

hope that helps

 

[ska invita]

Fucking just googled 'Laura Norder' ...

me too
quite a few lauras come up and i didnt know which one it referred to

thanks for solving that one

 

[DotCommunist]

can I introduce you to her sister, Lauren Forcement?

 

[Petcha]

No idea why Starmer wouldn't just pull that tweet, put his hands up and apologise and blame it on his internal PR team and he didn't see it before it went out. Job done.

But, no, it's still there. Hilarious.

 

[teqniq]

It would seem to be part of a series:

 

[gentlegreen]

As I anticipated, the whole grooming gang thing has acquired a dimension of Hindu extremism because of Braverman - and now Labour are chucking petrol on it...

Spoiler: YT - "GMB presenter Adil Ray says he’s received ‘nothing but racism’ following Suella Braverman comments"

 

[Brainaddict]

Sometimes I think Blair's worst crime, after the Iraq War, was not introducing PR as promised. This kind of arsehole posturing would ensure Labour got about 20% of parliament max, because if you like law and order posturing from vacuous airheads with no morals why wouldn't you vote Tory? And there would be space for a left wing party, who would be doing very well right now. Of course that's precisely why Blair didn't introduce PR.

 

[Petcha]

Sometimes I think Blair's worst crime, after the Iraq War, was not introducing PR as promised. This kind of arsehole posturing would ensure Labour got about 20% of parliament max, because if you like law and order posturing from vacuous airheads with no morals why wouldn't you vote Tory? And there would be space for a left wing party, who would be doing very well right now. Of course that's precisely why Blair didn't introduce PR.

The great British public were unfortunately either too thick or not informed well enough to understand the benefits of PR. Something like 30% voted for it when the referendum eventually happened. I mean I love this country, but that and the Brexit thing does make you wonder how fucking stupid the electorate is.

A better media campaign to actually tell people of the benefits would have been a good idea. From memory they overcomplicated it.

 

[Brainaddict]

The great British public were unfortunately either too thick or not informed well enough to understand the benefits of PR. Something like 30% voted for it when the referendum eventually happened. I mean I love this country, but that and the Brexit thing does make you wonder how fucking stupid the electorate is.

A better media campaign to actually tell people of the benefits would have been a good idea. From memory they overcomplicated it.

It was a bad bodge that was put to a vote in the referendum, deliberately so on Cameron's part. The libdems really fucked that one up. There was a perfectly adequate PR/constituency model available in the form of the one already used in the UK, in Scotland, so putting anything else to the vote was just an attempt to sabotage it, and to ensure that there weren't many enthusiastic campaigners pushing for a yes. Sometimes it amazes me how utterly the libdems fucked up their one turn in power in this country. They couldn't have done worse. They should definitely have held out for a vote on a proper PR system and threatened to end the coalition if they didn't get it.

 

[Rob Ray]

The great British public were unfortunately either too thick or not informed well enough to understand the benefits of PR.

I mean you say that but an actual fascist is in charge of PR-running Italy atm, it's not exactly a panacea. The original reasoning was that FPFP provided stability by keeping out the real nut jobs, a concept which had some appeal in the Blair/Brown/Cameroon era when other countries across Europe were electing increasingly headbanger far-right governments.

♪ and then they went and spoiled it all ... ♫

 

[andysays]

It was a bad bodge that was put to a vote in the referendum, deliberately so on Cameron's part. The libdems really fucked that one up. There was a perfectly adequate PR/constituency model available in the form of the one already used in the UK, in Scotland, so putting anything else to the vote was just an attempt to sabotage it, and to ensure that there weren't many enthusiastic campaigners pushing for a yes. Sometimes it amazes me how utterly the libdems fucked up their one turn in power in this country. They couldn't have done worse. They should definitely have held out for a vote on a proper PR system and threatened to end the coalition if they didn't get it.

Much easier, as so often, to just dismiss the electorate as think and uninformed though...

 

[ska invita]

It would seem to be part of a series:

 

[Petcha]

Much easier, as so often, to just dismiss the electorate as think and uninformed though...

It's 'thick'

 

[andysays]

It's 'thick'

The dreaded octocurrent strikes again...

 

[Ted Striker]

"This ad must be the worst idea this PR team has ever come up with"

"What about putting it on a t-shirt?"

"Ok, now second worst..."

 

[Cid]

can I introduce you to her sister, Lauren Forcement?

Her cousin Lady Laudown is... intimidating.

 

[brogdale]

They're opening themselves up to a whole series of tory ads with Starmer's picture and signature and outrageous (but likely true) claims about what he's done/said.

Exactly; and it just screams opposition party flak; I thought their schtick was to look like the government in waiting?

 

[_Russ_]

Much easier, as so often, to just dismiss the electorate as think and uninformed though..

I fuck load of them are.

 

[mojo pixy]

Her cousin Lady Laudown is... intimidating.

Her cousin Laura de Jungle is pretty wild

 

[andysays]

I fuck load of them are.

Certainly some of them are, and I suppose we should be thankful to have you here to remind us of that...

 

[Rob Ray]

expect more of this. And Starsngarters is already pushing hard on law and order, where he will vie with the Tories on who can come up with the most punitive bullshit. ... what he'll be wanting to portray as their unwillingness to get the house in order.

I don't usually indulge in I told you so, but "proven right within the week" is unusual. I put it down to Starmanwaitinginthesky and co being so brainless they are effectively Larping Blair at this point with no other plans or ideas at all.

 

[redsquirrel]

The great British public were unfortunately either too thick or not informed well enough to understand the benefits of PR. Something like 30% voted for it when the referendum eventually happened. I mean I love this country, but that and the Brexit thing does make you wonder how fucking stupid the electorate is.

When did this referendum on PR happen then?

 

[DotCommunist]

the funniest one I've seen so far:

 

[Pickman's model]

I fuck load of them are.

You've proved Petcha's point in at least your case

 

[Pickman's model]

I mean you say that but an actual fascist is in charge of PR-running Italy atm, it's not exactly a panacea. The original reasoning was that FPFP provided stability by keeping out the real nut jobs, a concept which had some appeal in the Blair/Brown/Cameroon era when other countries across Europe were electing increasingly headbanger far-right governments.

♪ and then they went and spoiled it all ... ♫

The original reasoning was that it kept liberals or tories in, nothing so benign as keeping nutters out

 

[Petcha]

When did this referendum on PR happen then?

2011

2011 United Kingdom Alternative Vote referendum - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Did you miss it?

 

[redsquirrel]

Did you miss what was being voted on. Clue - not PR.

If you are going to call an electorate of millions thick and stupid maybe get the basic facts right.

 

[Petcha]

Did you miss what was being voted on. Clue - not PR.

If you are going to call an electorate of millions thick and stupid maybe get the basic facts right.

AV is the same as PR. Semantics.

Clearly you were also a victim of the terrible messaging from the government at the time if you were not aware of that.

 

[Petcha]

I mean I can C&P paste for you if you like from that article

The alternative vote plus (AV+), or alternative vote top-up, is a semi-proportional voting system. AV+ was devised by the 1998 Jenkins Commission which first proposed the idea as a system that could be used for elections to the Parliament of the United Kingdom.[1]

As the name suggests, AV+ is an Additional member system which works in two parts: the 'AV' part and the 'plus' part. As in the alternative vote system, candidates are ranked numerically in order of preference. The important difference is that an additional group of members would be elected through regional party lists to ensure a degree of proportionality; in typical proposals, these members are 15–20% of the whole body. More specifically, each voter would get a second vote to elect a county or regional-level representative from a list of candidates of more than one person per party. The number of votes cast in this vote would decide how many representatives from that county or region would go on to parliament. In systems with an electoral threshold on regional seats, votes are transferred in order of voters' numerical preference until it puts a party above the threshold, or reaches a party already above.

 

[redsquirrel]

AV is the same as PR. Semantics.

Clearly you were also a victim of the terrible messaging from the government at the time if you were not aware of that.

No it is not.

As the Wikipedia states

Both AV and STV involve voters rank-ordering preferences. However, STV is considered to be a form of proportional representation, using multi-member constituencies, while AV, in single-member constituencies, is not.[5]

And the own page on AV

IRV is not a proportional voting system but a "winner-takes-all" method, because it results in only one winner in one district.[10]

AV+ does has some proportionality but the straight AV that was voted for at the 2011 referendum was not a proportional system, and in fact AV can be even less proportional than FPTP. (EDIT: and that paragraph you've quoted is not from the referendum page so thick and dishonest)

But yeah it is everyone else who is thick, stupid and uninformed.