Keir Starmer's time is up

[danny la rouge]

Is that the bit where the car is rolling backwards?

Yes, towards the cliff!

 

[inva]

Yes, towards the cliff!

I'd like to put myself forward for the role of Luke throwing up at the side in this analogy.

 

[Serge Forward]

Just to add a bit more to this discussion... how much of Thatcher's anti union laws did the last Labour government repeal? Answer: fuck all.

So how much of the more recent, even more draconian Tory anti union laws will an incoming Starmer government repeal? Just take a good guess.

Gang of cunts. Fuck Starmer and fuck Labour.

 

[ska invita]

and another thing - i think another thing that can be laid at blair's door is the way in which the armed forces have become so much more central to the country's way of seeing itself. sure, there was always the act of remembrance on 11 november or nearest sunday. but there wasn't always the armed forces covenant (tho arguably there should have been, the treatment of veterans has long been a stain on the mod) and there wasn't armed forces day or the slavish worship of military terms, the way in which the bbc for some years, maybe still does, describe things as being done with military precision. there's been a concerted effort to resituate the military in the public consciousness, into which so many people have bought as veterans from the greater wars, from ww1 and ww2, have died away. the frankly mawkish way in which poppies now adorn tube trains and dustcarts. for me that's all down to the wars too.

agree it was from this time, but i think it mainly came off the back of Help for Heroes - Wikipedia (launched 2007)more than the military itself, though they sail in the wake/support it

 

[SysOut]

Pinochet, Sierra Leone.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

agree it was from this time, but i think it mainly came off the back of Help for Heroes - Wikipedia (launched 2007)more than the military itself, though they sail in the wake/support it

But why did Help for Heroes have success? Because of Iraq and Afghanistan. If British soldiers hadn't been killing and being killed at the time, it would never have been created. And the renewal of the poppy appeal as something that isn't at all about 'lest we forget' but is explicitly about those who are dying now again is wholly down to Blair's wars. It is a normalisation of permanent war.

 

[Serge Forward]

And the increased militarisation of everyday life

 

[gosub]

But why did Help for Heroes have success? Because of Iraq and Afghanistan. If British soldiers hadn't been killing and being killed at the time, it would never have been created. And the renewal of the poppy appeal as something that isn't at all about 'lest we forget' but is explicitly about those who are dying now again is wholly down to Blair's wars. It is a normalisation of permanent war.

SSAFA, the Armed Forces charity are the real deal

 

[Leighsw2]

Basically, their whole approach is to slavishly appeal to a Boomer Gammon demographic and everybody else can just fuck off , "or it's the Tories". I have no idea whether that completely cynical and empty political calculation will lead to a Labour Government (it doesn't deserve to), but I feel very sure that, if it does, it will be the worst Labour Government we have ever known. I pity our poor country.

 

[ska invita]

But why did Help for Heroes have success? Because of Iraq and Afghanistan. If British soldiers hadn't been killing and being killed at the time, it would never have been created. And the renewal of the poppy appeal as something that isn't at all about 'lest we forget' but is explicitly about those who are dying now again is wholly down to Blair's wars. It is a normalisation of permanent war.

Totally agree, with you and Pickman's.... Just adding that my perception ( unproven) is HfH played a key role and that the charity does seem to have been a grassroots affair in its inception, which caught the public mood supposedly after the Lee Rigby murder. That slightly changes the nature of the military support... It's not just been dumped on us from above

 

[Chz]

And the increased militarisation of everyday life

Oh jesus, I hope we're not going down that road of hand on heart "Thank-you for your service" bullshit here. Not only is it gag-worthy, but I was watching something on Netflix where the host did it and the guy was a military paralegal for chrissakes. I'm sure he's risked his life getting papercuts for democracy.

Edit: That's not to demean paralegals, but the majority of those in military service will never fire a gun in anger and yet they're still fetishised for "putting their lives on the line". I think your average copper is in more danger than your average serviceman, but we don't worship them.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Oh jesus, I hope we're not going down that road of hand on heart "Thank-you for your service" bullshit here. Not only is it gag-worthy, but I was watching something on Netflix where the host did it and the guy was a military paralegal for chrissakes. I'm sure he's risked his life getting papercuts for democracy.

I would say that we're already a long way down that road.

 

[Serge Forward]

Looks that way. Remember kids, a poppy's not just for Remembrance Sunday, it's for the rest of the year as well.

 

[killer b]

I have literally not seen a single poppy worn by an actual person this year. It's a lip service thing for public service broadcast types and politicians, the vast majority of people don't bother

 

[danny la rouge]

I have literally not seen a single poppy worn by an actual person this year. It's a lip service thing for public service broadcast types and politicians, the vast majority of people don't bother

Another example of how The Meja and social media are not real life.

 

[kabbes]

I have literally not seen a single poppy worn by an actual person this year. It's a lip service thing for public service broadcast types and politicians, the vast majority of people don't bother

Yes, this is true, and much more so than usual. Because, like you say, literally not one person. And round here is very true blue — normally, I would see at least a bit of poppy wearing by now. Not sure what’s going on, to be honest.

 

[ska invita]

I have literally not seen a single poppy worn by an actual person this year. It's a lip service thing for public service broadcast types and politicians, the vast majority of people don't bother

Depends where you live, I've seen loads, including hundreds of poppies on lampposts, Street sellers etc
That said less this year than last

 

[kabbes]

There is certainly institutional poppying. It’s on lampposts and businesses. But I’ve not seen them on individuals

 

[killer b]

I was in London at the weekend, roamed all over the place and saw none. Same up here this week. There was some guys selling them at the service station on the way up north but no-one seemed to be buying.

Actually I have seen one lamppost poppy, but it looked like it was last years - was a bit faded and sad

 

[Serge Forward]

I have literally not seen a single poppy worn by an actual person this year. It's a lip service thing for public service broadcast types and politicians, the vast majority of people don't bother

Actually that's a fair point. In previous years there were loads but less this year. Local to me, there's this dickead whose house is decked out with England flags, poppy flags and lest we forget crap, but that's there all year round. The knob.

 

[killer b]

There is certainly institutional poppying. It’s on lampposts and businesses. But I’ve not seen them on individuals

it was the same with the queen dying - hardly anyone real gave much of a fuck beyond the bank holiday, but every shop, bar, company twitter account, newsreader and politician was decked out in black. It's like a weird parallel reality.

 

[Pickman's model]

Actually that's a fair point. In previous years there were loads but less this year. Local to me, there's this dickead whose house is decked out with England flags, poppy flags and lest we forget crap, but that's there all year round. The knob.

Seen more jehovah's witnesses than poppy sellers

 

[SpookyFrank]

But why did Help for Heroes have success?

Because there's a lot of fuckwits who can't tell a goat turd from a landmine?

 

[killer b]

I read an article a while ago (sadly I've not been able to find it again) that made a fairly convincing case that the rise in support for the military (including stuff like Help for Heroes and the like) among working class communities is because the military is one of the few remaining big employers for kids from those communities, and one of the most visible routes to success for many of them as a result.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I read an article a while ago (sadly I've not been able to find it again) that made a fairly convincing case that the rise in support for the military (including stuff like Help for Heroes and the like) among working class communities is because the military is one of the few remaining big employers for kids from those communities, and one of the most visible routes to success for many of them as a result.

So successful that...there has to be several charities dedicated to patching up the survivors.

Although none as far as I'm aware dedicated to repairing the traumatic effects of a parent's military heroism on their children.

 

[redsquirrel]

People who are calling for a #GeneralElectionNOW need to address this stuff. The anti immigrant rhetoric, the “arrest protesters” chat, his personal connections with private healthcare concerns, the anti working class neoliberalism… What are we supporting here? Him literally just not being Sunak?

But he's not a Tory Danny!

Ok, well, we have to hope that not too many anti-tories hold similar views, or it's continued Tory rule for us. And to be clear - I think that's worse.

This is the harm of Anti-Toryism. The removal of any coherent politics into just a dislike of the colour blue.

There is no way in fuck I'm going to vote Labour, especially not for Hilary Benn.
That does not mean I'm going to chest prod comrades that vote Labour out of some sort of forlorn hope, tribal loyalty or whatever.
Hell I voted Labour in 2017 and 2019, not because of political reasons but emotional ones - 2017 a surprised pleasure at a party issuing a social democratic manifesto for the first time in my (voting) life, 2019 in a knowingly useless attempt to give two fingers up to the labour right.

But the argument that socialists should throw their politics away and join liberals - fuck that.
And this is not based on some ideological purity, it is absolutely practical - liberalism is the problem. It is the cause of inequality, it is the reason that populisms are returning. Any real class politics has to be made not aligned to liberalism but in the face of it, as the gains of the working class during the middle/latter part of the 20th Century were.
Indeed the ideological purity is on the part of those that insist that socialists, communists, anarchist must give up their politics and support a "progressive alliance" that is utterly opposed to their politics.

 

[SpookyFrank]

At the moment it just looks like he’s promising efficient evil instead of inefficient evil. Hmm. Haud me back.

He's run his own party into the ground though. Labour has gone from half a million members and money to burn to a bankrupt shell. Grassroots party staff are leaving in disgust every day. There's no basis at all to think that Starmer will magically know how to run a country when he can't do the job he's got now.

 

[BristolEcho]

I read an article a while ago (sadly I've not been able to find it again) that made a fairly convincing case that the rise in support for the military (including stuff like Help for Heroes and the like) among working class communities is because the military is one of the few remaining big employers for kids from those communities, and one of the most visible routes to success for many of them as a result.

And our communities are actively targeted by the Armed Forces in particular for that reason.

 

[Pickman's model]

But he's not a Tory Danny!

This is the harm of Anti-Toryism. The removal of any coherent politics into just a dislike of the colour blue.

There is no way in fuck I'm going to vote Labour, especially not for Hilary Benn.
That does not mean I'm going to chest prod comrades that vote Labour out of some sort of forlorn hope, tribal loyalty or whatever.
Hell I voted Labour in 2017 and 2019, not because of political reasons but emotional ones - 2017 a surprised pleasure at a party issuing a social democratic manifesto for the first time in my (voting) life, 2019 in a knowingly useless attempt to give two fingers up to the labour right.

But the argument that socialists should throw their politics away and join liberals - fuck that.
And this is not based on some ideological purity, it is absolutely practical - liberalism is the problem. It is the cause of inequality, it is the reason that populisms are returning. Any real class politics has to be made not aligned to liberalism but in the face of it, as the gains of the working class during the middle/latter part of the 20th Century were.
Indeed the ideological purity is on the part of those that insist that socialists, communists, anarchist must give up their politics and support a "progressive alliance" that is utterly opposed to their politics.

Tbh it isn't even liberalism but toryism in a pink jacket

 

[danny la rouge]

Starmer wouldn’t pay nurses what they’re asking and doesn’t think they should have gone on strike.

Starmer 'empathises' with nurses but won't commit to inflation-busting payrise | ITV News

The Labour leader told ITV News he didn't 'want to make promises I can't keep' and that the pressing issue to resolve in the health service was staffing. | ITV National News

www.itv.com

The Labour leader told ITV News Deputy Political Editor Anushka Asthana he didn't "want to make promises I can't keep" when asked if he would support a pay rise for nurses that exceeds inflation.

He’s also not "going to pretend" that the strike was the outcome he hoped for.

"I know the impact that will have on so many people needing medical care," he added.

Before admitting he is indeed a Tory cunt and in need of a good doing.