Keir Starmer's time is up

[maomao]

Don't suppose he ever mentioned living in a caravan or house with other Trot demagogues and which ones if so?

He was more the ruffle the kids' hair and go in the other room to plot the revolution type. I could ask my dad but I don't talk to him often.

 

[belboid]

Just to drag this a bit further offtopic, I'm sure I've heard some weird anecdote about how, back in the very early days, apparently there was a period when Tony Cliff, Gerry Healy and someone who would go on to be of a similar level of importance were living in a caravan together - has anyone else heard this/can confirm if there's any truth to it?

In Ireland, before Cliff's leave to remain was sorted, I believe. He stole the cheese.

 

[belboid]

"Gerry Healy was at least entertaining". Yeah if you think thuggery, rape and doing nasty deals with Arab dictatorships and fingering dissidents who died horrible, painful deaths in Syrian prisons is entertaining.

funnily enough, he did none of those things when speaking. And being a complete shit doesn't stop you being able to soliloquise.

 

[brogdale]

Pre-figurative politics.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This is so bad it’s painful to read. Sample quote “This is a glimpse of the country we can become: forward-looking, open, kind, welcoming and in which all talents are fostered; an environment that is hostile only to intolerance. This nation will only come into being if it is led well. But instead of a prime minister who seeks to wrap himself in the flag of this new England, we have one who refused to condemn abuse directed against Southgate’s team”

Where to start. The desire to wrap himself ‘in the flag’, the implicit acceptance of meritocracy rather than economic and social justice as the only possible way to organise society, the desperate attempt to hitch the Labour Pary bandwagon to the back of the football team, the lack of any policy”….. none of this cut through and made an impression. Even if it did this isn’t - despite what their focus groups are telling them - how Labour is going to reconnect with those who they need to.

The values divide between Labour and the Tories isn’t a culture war. It’s a battle for the soul of England

Boris Johnson and Priti Patel tried to create a “hostile environment” for our footballers – but modern Britain is leaving them behind.

www.newstatesman.com

 

[agricola]

This is so bad it’s painful to read. Sample quote “This is a glimpse of the country we can become: forward-looking, open, kind, welcoming and in which all talents are fostered; an environment that is hostile only to intolerance. This nation will only come into being if it is led well. But instead of a prime minister who seeks to wrap himself in the flag of this new England, we have one who refused to condemn abuse directed against Southgate’s team”

Where to start. The desire to wrap himself ‘in the flag’, the implicit acceptance of meritocracy rather than economic and social justice as the only possible way to organise society, the desperate attempt to hitch the Labour Pary bandwagon to the back of the football team, the lack of any policy”….. none of this cut through and made an impression. Even if it did this isn’t - despite what their focus groups are telling them - how Labour is going to reconnect with those who they need to.

The values divide between Labour and the Tories isn’t a culture war. It’s a battle for the soul of England

Boris Johnson and Priti Patel tried to create a “hostile environment” for our footballers – but modern Britain is leaving them behind.

www.newstatesman.com

As with everything, the problem is that you have people raised and educated in a system being asked to solve a problem whose answer is fundamentally opposed to that system. One would almost describe this as being like the pre-Reformation Catholic Church being confronted with the Reformation, but even they had a bit of talent.

TBF though I think Labour's only way out of this is to only ever talk about fairness - it nearly always cuts through (as the latest Johnson dip shows) and they'll always have some opportunity to point to this government screwing someone over on behalf of its mates. You could even use it to deal with the problems of Brexit (as in "Brexit could have worked, but they've done it to benefit them rather than you") and the papers as well.

 

[Leighsw2]

A sit-com featuring Cliff, Healy and either Sean Matgamna or Frank Furedi (or possibly both) living together in one house sounds like a great idea for a sitcom, even if it might have rather a niche audience appeal.

It could find a place on Netflix. Can we keep the idea of the caravan?

 

[Serge Forward]

Google Image Result for https://i.imgur.com/IjcSwFH.jpg?fbplay

 

[hitmouse]

You know that option in Zoom meetings and similar where it can generate rough captions that are reasonably accurate most of the time? Just heard from someone who was on a call where the subtitle generator came up with "Chaos Dharma" for the hero of this thread. New favourite piece of rhyming slang.

 

[two sheds]

Labour announces launch of ‘new deal for working people’

Keir Starmer says initiative to provide good jobs is necessary as economy emerges from Covid crisis

www.theguardian.com

Labour announces launch of ‘new deal for working people’

Keir Starmer says initiative to provide good jobs is necessary as economy emerges from Covid crisis

Just after sacking and taking people on with worse pay and conditions. Nice of the Guardian not to mention this in the article though. A new Guardian deal for Starmer

 

[charlie mowbray]

funnily enough, he did none of those things when speaking. And being a complete shit doesn't stop you being able to soliloquise.

Yeah, come to think of it, Hitler was a great orator too, and killing millions of people doesn't stop you being able to soliloquise.

 

[brogdale]

Obviously from a parochial point of view, but here's the Inside Croydon take on Starmer's neoliberalisation of the LP.

Interesting and potentially smelly involvement of Croydon based The Campaign Company:

Yet while the Labour leadership hands out P45s with all the alacrity of a Tory tycoon, Inside Croydon has discovered that in the meantime a Croydon-based business has been working for the party, providing research and consultancy services.

That business, our loyal reader will have already guessed, is The Campaign Company, the consultancy founded by David Evans, who last year was hand-picked by Starmer to become the General Secretary of the Labour Party

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Some clear steals from the Biden infrastructure plan with language like ‘a wage you can raise a family on’. Further use of ideas and policies from the Corbyn era repackaged. A return of ideas once thought dead and buried: the dignity of labour, job security etc

Most importantly further evidence that the political class has grasped that the organisation of the economy will need to change post Covid.

Further evidence - along with the announcement a few weeks back that Labour would use the state’s £290bn procurement budget to buy from British companies - that Labour have finally accepted that the free-market won’t solve the economic questions arising from the pandemic and that government intervention is inevitable.

For Britain, without the drag anchor of an EU free market model still in thrall to neo-liberalism, a genuine step away from the economic order of the last 45 years looks inevitable:

 

[brogdale]

Some clear steals from the Biden infrastructure with language like ‘a wage you can raise a family on’. Further use of ideas and policies from the Corbyn era repackaged. A return of ideas once thought dead and buried: the dignity of labour, job security etc

Most importantly further evidence that the political class has grasped that the organisation of the economy will need to change post Covid.

Further evidence - along with the announcement a few weeks back that Labour would use the state’s £290bn procurement budget to buy from British companies - that Labour have finally accepted that the free-market won’t solve the economic questions arising from the pandemic and that government intervention is inevitable.

For Britain, without the drag anchor of an EU free market model still in thrall to neo-liberalism, a genuine step away from the economic order of the last 45 years looks inevitable:

Wow, someone got out of bed on the right side, today!

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Wow, someone got out of bed on the right side, today!

Well, I am on a 4 day week this week...

However, I’m not alone in that view. Firstly, Biden - certainly not a socialist or even a social democrat- is already bringing the state back:



Second, others have been making the argument about the end of neoliberalism and why it’s happening and in what form (other than the decomposition of free market capitalism)



Finally, understanding the shape shifting by capital and its political representatives is essential for our side no?

 

[glitch hiker]

I haven't heard Keir stand up for Dawn Butler at all. Maybe I've missed it, tbf. I don't follow the guy as he's as dull as dishwater, but it speaks volumes.

 

[brogdale]

Well, I am on a 4 day week this week...

However, I’m not alone in that view. Firstly, Biden - certainly not a socialist or even a social democrat- is already bringing the state back:

View attachment 280577

Second, others have been making the argument about the end of neoliberalism and why it’s happening and in what form (other than the decomposition of free market capitalism)



Finally, understanding the shape shifting by capital and its political representatives is essential for our side no?

I might take that Meadway interview over to the theory thread as it's probably worth considering in more depth than this thread will afford?

 

[glitch hiker]

I haven't heard Keir stand up for Dawn Butler at all. Maybe I've missed it, tbf. I don't follow the guy as he's as dull as dishwater, but it speaks volumes.

Apparently he has actually spoken out for her.

Dawn Butler was right to call Boris Johnson a liar, says Keir Starmer

Starmer backs Labour MP who was ejected from the Commons on Friday after saying PM had lied repeatedly

www.theguardian.com

 

[Gramsci]

Obviously from a parochial point of view, but here's the Inside Croydon take on Starmer's neoliberalisation of the LP.

Interesting and potentially smelly involvement of Croydon based The Campaign Company:

Lambeth is run in similar fashion. Croydon came unstuck with its failed housing development company.

The other problem with Labour Councils run for years by the right is the entrenched senior officers whose whole careers have been based around serving New Labour.

It ends up as a one party state in some Boroughs

The advent of Corbyn led to influx of young people who were a blessing to us who for years had been dealing with One Party Lambeth over local issues

They actually helped. Labour Cllrs were either unhappy with this or in grudging way put up with them.

What the right want is not ordinary mass membership.

They want a small membership who are vetted by them. No one else is welcome

All my Labour Cllrs supported Starmer for leader.


.

 

[Dystopiary]

Apparently he has actually spoken out for her.

Dawn Butler was right to call Boris Johnson a liar, says Keir Starmer

Starmer backs Labour MP who was ejected from the Commons on Friday after saying PM had lied repeatedly

www.theguardian.com

He even managed to do that in the blandest possible way.

 

[Raheem]

And at the latest possible opportunity.

 

[elbows]

Some clear steals from the Biden infrastructure plan with language like ‘a wage you can raise a family on’. Further use of ideas and policies from the Corbyn era repackaged. A return of ideas once thought dead and buried: the dignity of labour, job security etc

Most importantly further evidence that the political class has grasped that the organisation of the economy will need to change post Covid.

Further evidence - along with the announcement a few weeks back that Labour would use the state’s £290bn procurement budget to buy from British companies - that Labour have finally accepted that the free-market won’t solve the economic questions arising from the pandemic and that government intervention is inevitable.

For Britain, without the drag anchor of an EU free market model still in thrall to neo-liberalism, a genuine step away from the economic order of the last 45 years looks inevitable:

Good, we cant let neoliberalisms last gasp jokes that were an easy response to Johnsons operation last gasp ventilator jokes go to waste.

This stuff should have been on the agenda since at least the financial crisis, but there was a lot of heel-dragging and austerity doing a poor job of filling in the ideological void that was so apaprent in the wake of the financial crisis. These days even the fucking tories probably have their own version of this lurking somewhere in their minds.

 

[brogdale]

I see that Starmer's folk have pretty much swept the board at the London Regional Conference, with just a few die-hard Momentumists left:

Nathan Yeowell, co-director of Labour to Win and executive director of Progressive Britain, said: “These results show just how much the Labour Party is changing under Keir Starmer.

“Labour to Win-backed candidates have taken 13/16 CLP reps on the new London regional board. We came into this conference holding only 1/14. We’ve also won 3/4 officer positions and have won the elections for chair and both vice-chairs. We started the day with none of these positions.

“This is what unity looks like in today’s Labour Party – members coming together to put the division and defeat of the past decade behind us. We know that we’ve got to change the party to have any chance of winning the country at the next election.

 

[tony.c]

I see that Starmer's folk have pretty much swept the board at the London Regional Conference, with just a few die-hard Momentumists left:

Afaik the LRDC didn't do much when it was controlled by the right wing before 2019. The main thing it can do is veto London electoral candidates, so probably there will be mainly right wing candidates approved again from now.

 

[Leighsw2]

I see that Starmer's folk have pretty much swept the board at the London Regional Conference, with just a few die-hard Momentumists left:

A report on the conference (note the way it ended!)

 

[brogdale]

Afaik the LRDC didn't do much when it was controlled by the right wing before 2019. The main thing it can do is veto London electoral candidates, so probably there will be mainly right wing candidates approved again from now.

Yeah, having control means it can overlook any/all fit-ups to disqualify left candidates and impose their own.

 

[MrSki]

Did I hear right that a delegate asking about the Forde report was ejected?

 

[two sheds]

Yeah, having control means it can overlook any/all fit-ups to disqualify left candidates and impose their own.

i.e doing precisely what they've accused the underhanded left of doing. And when the left did get power they at least tried to do what the membership wanted.

 

[brogdale]

i.e doing precisely what they've accused the underhanded left of doing. And when the left did get power they at least tried to do what the membership wanted.

From an outsiders perspective, the Labour left were never nearly ruthless enough once they had a hand on the internal levers of power.

 

[two sheds]

Totally - and I can't see Biden being ruthless enough with the Republicans either (slightly different admittedly) in which case they'll be fucked at the next election.