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Keir Starmer's time is up

Smokeandsteam said:
When I was active in the Militant one of the most arduous tasks (there were a lot of arduous tasks) was explaining to new recruits why we invested so much time and energy in attacking everything the Labour Party said and did, whilst simultaneously spending even more time and energy attacking their attempts to expel us

Why, they’d ask, did we bother fighting attempts to boot us out by a party that hated us and which we condemned on every issue of significance. We’d patiently explain the ‘dialectic process’ to them and the Labour Party’s ineffable role as the only possible mass party of the working class. These naïve youngsters would either eventually come to realise the dubious benefits of entryism or clock that we were mad from the off and hopefully went and did something more useful with their youthful lives.

Until Taaffe decided that the Labour Party was no longer the mass party of the working class and a new one would need to be built. By us. Then we’d patiently explain to new recruits that the Labour Party was not the mass party of the working class etc etc
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Yeah, I always wondered about that...
 
Smokeandsteam said:
When I was active in the Militant one of the most arduous tasks (there were a lot of arduous tasks) was explaining to new recruits why we invested so much time and energy in attacking everything the Labour Party said and did, whilst simultaneously spending even more time and energy attacking their attempts to expel us

Why, they’d ask, did we bother fighting attempts to boot us out by a party that hated us and which we condemned on every issue of significance. We’d patiently explain the ‘dialectic process’ to them and the Labour Party’s ineffable role as the only possible mass party of the working class. These naïve youngsters would either eventually come to realise the dubious benefits of entryism or clock that we were mad from the off and hopefully went and did something more useful with their youthful lives.

Until Taaffe decided that the Labour Party was no longer the mass party of the working class and a new one would need to be built. By us. Then we’d patiently explain to new recruits that the Labour Party was not the mass party of the working class etc etc
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How was the change of tack presented?
 
Smokeandsteam said:
I’m tempted to say at exerable length using the usual pseudo scientific ‘Marxist’ method so beloved of Grant, Taaffe and rest of them.
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I never had any real idea of Grant’s politics other than in struggle against his policies in Lambeth in the 80’s. He was a total cunt.

Later, much later he used to hang out at Ruskin House in Croydon. An old labour club type place. He was in the retired members association. I went with my parents and Old Red Ted had a fit at the sight of me and had to be comforted by my Mum.
 
TopCat said:
I never had any real idea of Grant’s politics other than in struggle against his policies in Lambeth in the 80’s. He was a total cunt.

Later, much later he used to hang out at Ruskin House in Croydon. An old labour club type place. He was in the retired members association. I went with my parents and Old Red Ted had a fit at the sight of me and had to be comforted by my Mum.
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Never met him. Being forced to read The Unbroken Thread felt like punishment enough.
 
Poor Keir, did you see his little face during PMQ's. He looked so happy he'd finally found some semblance of a voice.

Just a shame the human hatestack couldn't be bothered to not risk covid and be there in person to lie through his fucking gnashers
 
TopCat said:
I never had any real idea of Grant’s politics other than in struggle against his policies in Lambeth in the 80’s. He was a total cunt.

Later, much later he used to hang out at Ruskin House in Croydon. An old labour club type place. He was in the retired members association. I went with my parents and Old Red Ted had a fit at the sight of me and had to be comforted by my Mum.
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Are you confusing Ted Grant with Ted Knight? Lots of Teds, but I preferred the latter over the former.
 
I know I’m biased but Ted Grant was easily the dullest of the Crucial Three of British Trotskyism. Dry and a voice that only varied loud, louder and slightly hectoring.

Gerry Healy was at least entertaining. Mad as a box of frogs that were being electrocuted, which probably helped. Much better at varying tone and hand gesticulations. Plus talking massive bollocks that was just wtf?

Cliff was best though. His accent and hair helped considerably, but he did also know how to shift between the humorous and the serious and how to tease you into paying attention to him. The fact he talked more sense than the other two also helped, as did the fact that swappie hand gesticulations were way better than the millies.
 
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belboid said:
I know I’m biased but Ted Grant was easily the dullest of the Crucial Three of British Trotskyism. Dry and a voice that only varied loud, louder and slightly hectoring.

Gerry Healy was at least entertaining. Mad as a box of frogs that were being electrocuted, which probably helped. Much better at varying tone and hand gesticulations. Plus talking massive bollocks that was just wtf?

Cliff was best though. His accent and hair helped considerably, but he did also know how to shift between the humorous and the serious and how to tease you into paying attention to him. The fact he talked more sense than the other two also helped, as did the fact that swappie hand gesticulations were way better than the millies.
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Just to drag this a bit further offtopic, I'm sure I've heard some weird anecdote about how, back in the very early days, apparently there was a period when Tony Cliff, Gerry Healy and someone who would go on to be of a similar level of importance were living in a caravan together - has anyone else heard this/can confirm if there's any truth to it?

Back on sort of topic, was talking to my dad, who for whatever reason is still in the Labour Party, and not affiliated with one of the Four Poisonous Groups, he was saying that his attitude to the idea of being expelled was "bring it on - not in a macho, I relish the challenge way, just in a someone please put me out of this misery way."
 
hitmouse said:
Just to drag this a bit further offtopic, I'm sure I've heard some weird anecdote about how, back in the very early days, apparently there was a period when Tony Cliff, Gerry Healy and someone who would go on to be of a similar level of importance were living in a caravan together - has anyone else heard this/can confirm if there's any truth to it?

Back on sort of topic, was talking to my dad, who for whatever reason is still in the Labour Party, and not affiliated with one of the Four Poisonous Groups, he was saying that his attitude to the idea of being expelled was "bring it on - not in a macho, I relish the challenge way, just in a someone please put me out of this misery way."
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My parents are both still in the LP, have been as long as I can remember.

My dad, now 72 seems genuinely wistful about how all these young people suddenly turned up, enthused and the CLP meetings (in Hampshire, of all places) became genuinely exciting for him in the Corbyn years and bitter about how its gone since then, and the new blood has dispersed. Still, he remains in the party hoping it might happen again. Although, I did ask him how he felt about being expelled (brought a motion of no confidence in KS, which naturally lost, but closely). His response was that he couldn't give a shit.
 
andysays said:
A sit-com featuring Cliff, Healy and either Sean Matgamna or Frank Furedi (or possibly both) living together in one house sounds like a great idea for a sitcom, even if it might have rather a niche audience appeal.
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There's film...

 
andysays said:
A sit-com featuring Cliff, Healy and either Sean Matgamna or Frank Furedi (or possibly both) living together in one house sounds like a great idea for a sitcom, even if it might have rather a niche audience appeal.
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The one where they come into contact with working class people would be an instant classic surely?
 
Argonia said:
Union Jack worshippers. I hated boy scouts as we had to sing songs to that ghastly pendant but fortunately no nonce got his hands on me. I remember one time some guy with weird eyes swimming in strange glasses wanted to buy me an ice cream at the Guildford show in Stoke Park but I clocked him and legged it back home.

www.independent.co.uk

Labour left warns Keir Starmer not to wrap the party in union flag

Report recommends ‘patriotic’ rebranding to win back voters
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
cubs one Bob a job week was enough for me. One fucker had clean the industrial printing press he had in his garage 4hours for a fiver
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Cliff and Chani were uncle/auntie figures to me as a littl'un and it always amuses me to hear him discussed as a Trot demagogue (though obviously true).
 
TopCat said:
Yes!
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Quite enjoying the idea of someone running up to Ted Grant and angrily denouncing him for Ted Knight's crimes. Or the other way around, whatever.
maomao said:
Cliff and Chani were uncle/auntie figures to me as a littl'un and it always amuses me to hear him discussed as a Trot demagogue (though obviously true).
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Don't suppose he ever mentioned living in a caravan or house with other Trot demagogues and which ones if so?
 
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