Keir Starmer's time is up

[ska invita]

I know a little about Left Unity. They spent approximately 2 years building the democratic model and software to make internal democracy horizontal, including online conferences etc. Slightly ahead of the curve of where we are now.
They were then at the process of producing policy positions, which included online voting for members.
Then Corbyn became leader.
Would it have got far? No.
I cant remember if anyone ever stood for office anywhere. It doesn't matter if they did tbh.
I do think that the structural work that went into it would be very useful to take down off the shelf for any future outfit.
Its a different landscape now than it was then. There is definitely room for a new party of this ilk.
I expect once Covid crisis passes something will arise.

I'm more enthusiastic about non-electoral stuff than electoral stuff

We really need both. The electoral bit is particularly depressing, masochistic and to some degree pointless, in the UK but that's where we are. I still think it is necessary.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Do you have to pay into the Labour Link fund as well? I think opting out means you don't get a vote, I could be wrong though.

In Unite part of your subs goes into the political fund. You have to actively opt out of the affiliation to Labour part of the fund. I opted out for years but then went back in to vote for Corbyn. Where a member ‘opts out’ the subs remain the same but the money is used for non LP political campaigning. Not sure how it works in other unions.

 

[redsquirrel]

I think around 2015 it was a matter of time before the activity around anti-austerity formed a new party to the left of Labour. See the People's Assembly stuff and Left Unity project, there was definitely something building up there, but Corbyn's election as leader of the Labour Party led to most of the people involved in that getting involved with Labour and Momentum instead.

There is a strong social-democratic tradition in this country and a failure of the Labour Party to represent that is what lost them Scotland, and will lose them England as soon as a viable alternative can emerge. Corbyn delayed that process by bringing anti-austerity activists back into the Labour Party.

What hitmouse said. The attack on the LP from a party to the left (or the right) has been raised time and time again - see the list hitmouse gave. It has never gone anywhere for one very good reason the LP has a huge weapon in its armament - it is the only realistic alternative to the Tories for most people.

If you are going to put your eggs into the basket of electoralism at least start from sensible point. The LP has always been incredibly effective at protecting itself from challenges and FPTP gives it a huge advantage. I'd love it if the NIP (or similar) gave it a kicking but the replacement of the LP by another party in the short/medium term is fantasy.

 

[Serge Forward]

And also because first past the post favours a two party system, so unless Labour completely disintegrates and some other party takes its place, you're stuck with same old shit rather than a bit different but still shit.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yep. And even in under PR systems that is pretty much the case. OK Pasok were broken by Syriza, but then what are Syriza now but a new version of Pasok (even containing some of the same people). The German Greens are displacing the the SDP as the centre-left option but are their politics actually any different? The odds are they'll be (back) in a coalition with the CDU at the end of the year.

 

[brogdale]

Lordy.

 

[ska invita]

Lordy.

View attachment 262205

i feel memes coming on

 

[1927]

Lordy.

View attachment 262205

Is this the remake of Rita,Sue and Bob too?

 

[magneze]

Lordy.

View attachment 262205

That awkward moment when someone Google's you.

 

[Pickman's model]

Lordy.

View attachment 262205

That awkward moment when man in his 50s tries to be down with the young uns

 

[Pickman's model]

Lordy.

View attachment 262205

"You're right, he is the man my parents warned me about"

 

[Humberto]

I think for Labour to win they have to oppose i.e. they have to unabashedly hate the Tories and its leading lights. The PLP get pushed by them onto the back foot constantly. E.g. Labour's 'culpability' in 'spending recklessly' making brutal austerity 'inevitable'. This was accepted by the Labour front bench. Or Labour is 'unpatriotic', so they must change tack and chase the Tories agenda again. How about "Labour can't be trusted to retaliate to a nuclear attack", they are 'soft' on crime, immigration, welfare... They are 'too economically left-wing' and will damage the economy/businesses/Stock Markets. So the PLP tries to appear 'hard' but is always on the back foot dancing to the Tories' tune. The Tories are proudly none of the things that they accuse Labour of, while Labour is torn between trying to offer an alternative and not being sunk before they have even started to make their case to the eloctorate. They also definitely lack authenticity (how could they not?) and in my view don't have the guts or the smarts to answer back effectively.

The PLP will never win on its knees, being bullyragged by the unabashed Bullingdon set. They can't act or lie their way into power either. Certainly not from that position. They have to start again (with or without a new leader), they have to be a lot bolder, and they have to get off their knees and hate the Tories. It's a long way back. I don't think Starmer is the man for the job, but I see no imminent prospect of a leadership change so the chance is there for him if he can at least try.

 

[gosub]

Thinking about this today:
View attachment 261990

Didn't his predecessor study manhole covers as a hobby

 

[Shechemite]

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeh that worked well at the vigil for Sarah Everard.

Who do you turn to when it's the cops who're antisocial elements?

 

[Dystopiary]

Well...

 

[Pickman's model]

Strange how the labour right accuse the labour left of cosying up to the Tories and undermining the party Labour cries foul over union poll showing Tories on track to take Hartlepool when they've a proud and much more luminous record of just that

 

[splonkydoo]

Strange how the labour right accuse the labour left of cosying up to the Tories and undermining the party Labour cries foul over union poll showing Tories on track to take Hartlepool when they've a proud and much more luminous record of just that

The Labour right:

1. delusion & projection
2. flags
3. ??????????
4. a labour victory

 

[Pickman's model]

The Labour right:

1. delusion & projection
2. flags
3. ??????????
4. a labour victory

4 is optional, just as long as the left don't win

 

[Wilf]

I never quite know what 'released to' newspaper x means when when the information appears on Survation's own website - presumably the Times given 24 hours advance notice? If that's the case, I'm not sure why the CWU chose the Times?
Survation | First Hartlepool phone poll has Conservatives in driving seat | Survation

Giving it to the Times is a gift to the Labour right and gives them something to yap about. Of course that yapping amounts to shouting 'don't tell him Pike' about the actual data. And of course when it comes to having a relationship with the Murdoch press to undermine a Labour leader... In fact so faithful and loving I'm surprised the Archbishop of Canterbury didn't mention it in his Easter service.

 

[Quote]

Picturing someone from the PLP giving an interview about the lack of unity whilst a dartboard with a picture of Corbyn on it still hangs unnoticed in the corner.

“Where was I ... oh yes, unity. It’s very important you know.”

 

[two sheds]

if you look at the inspector montalbano wiki there's a 15th series this year. but not if you look at List of Inspector Montalbano episodes - Wikipedia. they're all available via the bbc iplayer (except the possible fifteenth series)

Young Montelbano is on again ❤ , just watched episode 1. I now feel guilty - it's one of the few things I actually watch to keep up with the subtitles, I could have taught myself Italian by now

 

[Pickman's model]

Young Montelbano is on again ❤ , just watched episode 1. I now feel guilty - it's one of the few things I actually watch to keep up with the subtitles, I could have taught myself Italian by now

yeh i've seen all the young ones too

i'd love to get to sicily this year

 

[danny la rouge]

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Fuck off Kieth.

 

[TopCat]

Loathsome.

 

[brogdale]

Oleaginous, obsequious forelock tugging git.

 

[SpookyFrank]

That awkward moment when man in his 50s tries to be down with the young uns

Corbyn's 108 and the yoof loved him.

 

[TopCat]

That awkward moment when man in his 50s tries to be down with the young uns

I am that cool guy.

 

[Pickman's model]

I am that cool guy.

Yeh but you don't try