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Kamala Harris' time is up

littlebabyjesus said:
The language in the waffle is important, though. She's not afraid to use the word 'collective', for example. In reality, if she's elected, it won't mean a massive amount. Maybe slightly better terms for health care, maybe slightly better holiday entitlement. Making the US a bit more like Canada, essentially. But it is a very different kind of waffle from the Trumpian variety.

And all this could work. Casting the Dems as the party of freedom, the party that will keep government out of private affairs, is a pretty good trick.

ETA:

There is also some other context there. Shawn Fain is kind of the US equivalent of Mick Lynch. He's a relatively militant union leader. She's thanking him for his endorsement, which means something in itself. TBH Harris has surprised me thus far. She's not quite the vacuous Clinton-style (husband or wife) centrist that I had assumed her to be. Imagine Keir Starmer sharing a stage with Mick Lynch and thanking him for his endorsement!
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in which case:
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littlebabyjesus said:
But she's not falling into the trap of fixating on him. She's giving positive reasons to vote for her. And she is an impressive speaker.
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seriously though if you come across a link of her giving a genuinely impressive speech please post and maybe tag me.
 
AnnO'Neemus said:
I disagree with your characterisation of Clinton as vacuous, she's an extremely well-educated and competent lawyer and is quite astute and capable, politically. Ultimately and unfortunately, however, I suppose Clinton was arguably more Washington DC establishment, she was more 'inside the beltway' whereas Harris' background is California senate then veep, she seems more fresh and new and approachable and 'of the people' iyswim, with her folksy ways, her Converse and jeans, etc., much more approachable and warmer and more empathetic than the arguably political wonk/dorky Clinton who seemingly went through the motions making/baking cookies. Where that kind of thing seemed forced and fake with Clinton, you can imagine Harris getting stuck in and enjoying that.

Whereas Clinton's credentials were more easily questionable, like: 'So her husband was president, but how and why does that mean she's got the credentials/experience to stand for president?' No disrespect to Clinton intended, she apparently did some good work re health policy etc while her husband was in office, but she was/had always been more in her husband's shadow, whereas Harris is the one who's been the public figure in her marriage, so it's easier to visualise Harris in a leadership role rather than playing second fiddle to her husband.

Women shouldn't be judged on who and what their husband is (or their wife/partner), but the reality is that that happens, just like male politicians on the 'first lady' potential of their wives (or spouses).

Btw, I agree with you re her making a point about the government keeping out of private affairs, that will definitely play well with Republicans.
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The bar for women is set so much higher than that for men. And most particularly in American politics. It's depressing to see Hilary Clinton - in 2024 - being dismissed so casually as vacuous.
 
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ska invita said:
in which case:
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seriously though if you come across a link of her giving a genuinely impressive speech please post and maybe tag me.
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Tbh, I think the bar for political speeches has been set so low by Trump that anyone who's articulate and can get a message across succinctly, who comes across as positive and upbeat, serious and capable while simultaneously warm and approachable, with a sense of humour (as opposed to a vicious nasty streak) comes across as a superlative orator.

It doesn't take much to be better than Trump, basically, but Harris is doing well so far.
 
VivaE said:
The bar for women is set so much higher than that for men. And most particularly in American politics. It's depressing to see Hilary Clinton - in 2024 - being dismissed so casually as vacuous.
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I dismissed both her and her husband as vacuous. Be accurate.

And she is. Remember the super predator children. She's actually far worse than vacuous. Both she and her husband have appalling politics.

Nothing casual about the dismissal of those dismal corporate shills.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
I dismissed both her and her husband as vacuous. Be accurate.

And she is. Remember the super predator children. She's actually far worse than vacuous. Both she and her husband have appalling politics.

Nothing casual about the dismissal of those dismal corporate shills.
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Vacuous doesn't seem the right word for either Clinton, though. There are many valid criticisms of them, but they're not stupid. And it's a term mostly used for women, so I'm not surprised that VivaE missed that you meant both Clintons.
 
scifisam said:
Vacuous doesn't seem the right word for either Clinton, though. There are many valid criticisms of them, but they're not stupid. And it's a term mostly used for women, so I'm not surprised that VivaE missed that you meant both Clintons.
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i agree that vacuous describes neither clinton. they were both very smart, very savvy, whatever their politics or business dealings. she did win the vote in 2016, with one little bit of help from me.

however the term vacuous is used usually of opinions or positions, and when it is used of people there is no distinction in gender application
 
petee said:
i agree that vacuous describes neither clinton. they were both very smart, very savvy, whatever their politics or business dealings. she did win the vote in 2016, with one little bit of help from me.

however the term vacuous is used usually of opinions or positions, and when it is used of people there is no distinction in gender application
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It is used more for women. Much like "bossy" is.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
I dismissed both her and her husband as vacuous. Be accurate.

And she is. Remember the super predator children. She's actually far worse than vacuous. Both she and her husband have appalling politics.

Nothing casual about the dismissal of those dismal corporate shills.
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No fan of either Clinton, but himself did a lot for the peace process in Ireland, which is anything but appalling.
 
Yossarian said:
Trump at a rally Friday night: "Kamala Harris, you know, it's interesting. Nobody really knows her last name. If you ask people, do you know what her last name is? Nobody has any idea what it is. Harris. It’s like Harris."

Not even sure what line of attack he's attempting there - does he consider Harris a strange and exotic surname?
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Cos he's Trump not the Donald or Don...one name famous off a first name is different tier
 
petee said:
he's the reason i got re-politicized. when the second iraq invasion happened, i said (on another forum) that lying was a sacrament for rightwing christians (who were gung-ho for the invasion, despite that one donald trump called it out).

and in the meantime, assad fanboys, trump, J6, coronavirus denialism, every one of them built on lies.
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Changed my view on that...Iraq was Chenney and Rumsfeld and Bush looked to Blair for balance and support and they both got played..though they were complicated in the wider 'played' we Western public were..let alone Iraqis
 
krtek a houby said:
Maybe there's a worm in his brain
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Also I noticed, during a candid clip the other day of Trump sat in his golfing kart with son Barron - chatting to golf-course employees - he all of a sudden had no trouble pronouncing her first name "Kamala" rather than "Kamala" as he does at rallies and such. It's pathetically transparent bigoted nonsense and he won't win any swing votes out of it.
 
pointless_walks said:
Also I noticed, during a candid clip the other day of Trump sat in his golfing kart with son Barron - chatting to golf-course employees - he all of a sudden had no trouble pronouncing her first name "Kamala" rather than "Kamala" as he does at rallies and such. It's pathetically transparent bigoted nonsense and he won't win any swing votes out of it.
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That's the clip where he also called her a "fucking bitch" isn't it?
 
cesare said:
That's the clip where he also called her a "fucking bitch" isn't it?
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Sounded like it to me yeah. Saddest thing about what he did say, including those ugly words about Biden, was that his youngest son was sat right next to him. Apparently Barron is already politically active in MAGA circles anyway...learning from the best (i.e the very worst).
 
pointless_walks said:
Also I noticed, during a candid clip the other day of Trump sat in his golfing kart with son Barron - chatting to golf-course employees - he all of a sudden had no trouble pronouncing her first name "Kamala" rather than "Kamala" as he does at rallies and such. It's pathetically transparent bigoted nonsense and he won't win any swing votes out of it.
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What's bigoted about saying her name with the stress on the second syllable? I mean, I've heard lots of people say it that way.
 
scifisam said:
What's bigoted about saying her name with the stress on the second syllable? I mean, I've heard lots of people say it that way.
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I s'pose I included that word because I feel it's a part of his schtick regarding her as a black woman. It's the exaggerated inflection he uses, a very ugly-sounding "Kamaala...Kamaaala" as he says to his audiences, to make it sound as 'other' as possible...same kind of attitude he adopted with Obama. And then - all of a sudden when he thinks no one's listening - he pronounces it correctly, as simple "Kamala", the way she prefers it, the way the vast majority of people say it. That's my take anyway, not gonna waste too many more words over it though.
 
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pointless_walks said:
I s'pose I included that word because I feel it's a part of his schtick regarding her as a black woman. It's the exaggerated inflection he uses, a very ugly-sounding "Kamaala...Kamaaala" as he says to his audiences, to make it sound as 'other' as possible...same kind of attitude he adopted with Obama. And then - all of a sudden when he thinks no one's listening - he pronounces it correctly, as simple "Kamala", the way she prefers it, the way the vast majority of people say it. That's my take anyway, not gonna waste too many more words over it though.
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I would add, though, that I'm also finding the whole Harris/Walz ticket more than a little grating at this point - the call and response they're using - but then this is America and I'm an uptight Brit, lol. I know I'm not alone though. Another three months of this fingernails-down-a-blackboard I'll be glad when it's done and dusted (pardon pun).
 
scifisam said:
What's bigoted about saying her name with the stress on the second syllable? I mean, I've heard lots of people say it that way.
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He's mocked her name in the past and deliberately mispronounces it, at a rally in July, he said, "They were explaining to me, you can say Kamala. You can say Kamala. I said, don't worry about it. Doesn't matter what I say. I couldn't care less if I mispronounce it or not. I couldn't care less" - I don't think he'd be doing the same shit with a name he considered less foreign
 
Yossarian said:
He's mocked her name in the past and deliberately mispronounces it, at a rally in July, he said, "They were explaining to me, you can say Kamala. You can say Kamala. I said, don't worry about it. Doesn't matter what I say. I couldn't care less if I mispronounce it or not. I couldn't care less" - I don't think he'd be doing the same shit with a name he considered less foreign
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Yep.

Another habit him and his fellow far right goons have, is emphasis on certain names like "Barack HUSSEIN Obama".
 
krtek a houby said:
Yep.

Another habit him and his fellow far right goons have, is emphasis on certain names like "Barack HUSSEIN Obama".
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Yep - I mean he mocked Pete Buttigeig as I recall for his surname...but this feels different, the hatred dripping from his mouth when he speaks her name. He'll struggle to control it, especially on the debate platform. If she plays it the right way he may explode, lol. ≖‿≖
 
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