Although somehow George W Bush managed to do just that against John Kerry.
Kamala Harris' time is up
- Thread starter krtek a houby
- Start date
I always thought the Bush/Kerry thing was the biggest brassneck ever while being reluctantly admiring that they managed to pull it off. Still no idea how they managed that.
And not just a veteran, he won a purple heart and all that. So a war hero to Americans. Just all really weird.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Yeah. I'm no in favour of seeing all soldiers as heroes, but Kerry definitely fit the profile for hero, and they managed to make him be... weak.
The whole Trump farago has made a lot of people forget just how fucking bad GW Bush was. He wasn't even all that different, but he's seen as some sort of elder statesman now.
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
It'll be interesting to see just how many of Corporal Vance's attacks manage to land and stick on Command Sergeant Major* Walz... So far it's been about the circumstances of his retirement from service to go into elected office... Vance's current attack line and the story behind it...
UK Army rank equivalent: Warrant Officer 1st class. Highest ranked NCO position in either army.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Incredible, isn't it. At the time, believed it couldn't get worse than Dubya.
But there's hope now. A few weeks ago, was utterly convinced that Trump was set for another crack at the wheel.
He won't go quietly, but he might well be a loser. Again. And doesn't he just hate being one.
Combustible
Well-Known Member
8ball
Decolonise colons!
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Silly to pay too much attention to the bookies, but as of today, for the first time, every bookie now has Harris odds-on, and some have Trump odds against.
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election/winner
If anything they seem to have been pretty slow to turn around, given that every poll from August has Harris ahead.
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election/winner
If anything they seem to have been pretty slow to turn around, given that every poll from August has Harris ahead.
VivaE
Well-Known Member
Fair enough, I was probably a little bit hasty/unfair in my rush to eye-roll. It was just mainly the notion that it's only recently become clear to some that trump is unfit for purpose - any purpose.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
What Bush did to McCain in 2000 (over his adopted daughter) hasn't been equalled since in terms of outright disgusting behaviour, even by Trump.
petee
no gods, no malarkey
he's the reason i got re-politicized. when the second iraq invasion happened, i said (on another forum) that lying was a sacrament for rightwing christians (who were gung-ho for the invasion, despite that one donald trump called it out).
and in the meantime, assad fanboys, trump, J6, coronavirus denialism, every one of them built on lies.
VivaE
Well-Known Member
I think that deserves a link for those who may not know the low that Bush and Rove felt happy to descend to in that campaign:
Dirty Tricks, South Carolina and John McCain
Undone in South Carolina by the Bush campaign's dirty tricks in 2000, John McCain now turns to the man who smeared him.
www.thenation.com
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Jesus. I vaguely remembered something, but not that it was that vile.I think that deserves a link for those who may not know the low that Bush and Rove felt happy to descend to in that campaign:
Dirty Tricks, South Carolina and John McCain
Undone in South Carolina by the Bush campaign's dirty tricks in 2000, John McCain now turns to the man who smeared him.
bcuster
Well-Known Member
Oklahoma : red state
www.oklahoman.com
As a Republican, I was ready to vote for Biden. Now, I will vote for real, intelligent leadership | Jim Young
The press and political leaders in Washington must ask the difficult questions and demand intelligent solutions on policy instead of personalities.
www.oklahoman.com
Yeah, I mean I obviously don't share McCain's politics but he always came across as basically a decent man. And again, astonishing that GW Bush's side got away with calling him a coward because he ended up in POW camp when Bush dodged the draft. (A case of attack being the best form of defence but still, astonishing.)
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
Good speech from her to the United Auto Workers Union in Detroit
ska invita
back on the other side
bit waffley though dont you think?... she didnt actually say anything ifynwim...something about ideals was it? we believe in our country? we know the people, we see the people? they were coherent sentences though, which does make her stand out
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's the counter to MAGA, I guess, reclaiming patriotism. That does seem to be a big theme, and US candidates generally always seem to feel the need to talk about how special the USA is.bit waffley though dont you think?... she didnt actually say anything ifynwim...something about ideals was it? we believe in our country? we know the people, we see the people? they were coherent sentences though, which does make her stand out
She has said something concrete regarding the right to join a union before, though. My guess is that she maybe mentioned that before the clip starts?
The language in the waffle is important, though. She's not afraid to use the word 'collective', for example. In reality, if she's elected, it won't mean a massive amount. Maybe slightly better terms for health care, maybe slightly better holiday entitlement. Making the US a bit more like Canada, essentially. But it is a very different kind of waffle from the Trumpian variety.
And all this could work. Casting the Dems as the party of freedom, the party that will keep government out of private affairs, is a pretty good trick.
ETA:
There is also some other context there. Shawn Fain is kind of the US equivalent of Mick Lynch. He's a relatively militant union leader. She's thanking him for his endorsement, which means something in itself. TBH Harris has surprised me thus far. She's not quite the vacuous Clinton-style (husband or wife) centrist that I had assumed her to be. Imagine Keir Starmer sharing a stage with Mick Lynch and thanking him for his endorsement!
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
She's been doing plenty of that.
But she's not falling into the trap of fixating on him. She's giving positive reasons to vote for her. And she is an impressive speaker.
AnnO'Neemus
Is so vanilla
I disagree with your characterisation of Clinton as vacuous, she's an extremely well-educated and competent lawyer and is quite astute and capable, politically. Ultimately and unfortunately, however, I suppose Clinton was arguably more Washington DC establishment, she was more 'inside the beltway' whereas Harris' background is California senate then veep, she seems more fresh and new and approachable and 'of the people' iyswim, with her folksy ways, her Converse and jeans, etc., much more approachable and warmer and more empathetic than the arguably political wonk/dorky Clinton who seemingly went through the motions making/baking cookies. Where that kind of thing seemed forced and fake with Clinton, you can imagine Harris getting stuck in and enjoying that.
Whereas Clinton's credentials were more easily questionable, like: 'So her husband was president, but how and why does that mean she's got the credentials/experience to stand for president?' No disrespect to Clinton intended, she apparently did some good work re health policy etc while her husband was in office, but she was/had always been more in her husband's shadow, whereas Harris is the one who's been the public figure in her marriage, so it's easier to visualise Harris in a leadership role rather than playing second fiddle to her husband.
Women shouldn't be judged on who and what their husband is (or their wife/partner), but the reality is that that happens, just like male politicians on the 'first lady' potential of their wives (or spouses).
Btw, I agree with you re her making a point about the government keeping out of private affairs, that will definitely play well with Republicans.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Occasionally wonder just how far a potential candidate would go, without praising America or mentioning God.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Harris went to high school in Montreal, so she saw first hand how things worked up here. Walz is a governor for a state border Canada. Ford is the premiere of Ontario.
Doug Ford ‘happy as punch’ Tim Walz is Kamala Harris’ running mate | Globalnews.ca
Ford noted he and Walz had a productive meeting at Queen's Park to discuss economic ties between Ontario and Minnesota just two months before Walz joined the Democratic ticket.
globalnews.ca
Ontario Premier Doug Ford said Wednesday he’s “happy as punch” that Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz was chosen to be U.S. Vice-President Kamala Harris’ running mate for her presidential campaign.
Ford said he and Walz had a productive meeting at Queen’s Park just two months before the governor was asked to join the Democratic ticket, a choice that was made official on Tuesday.
“I was happy as punch to see the governor get nominated,” Ford told reporters at an unrelated press conference in Mississauga.
“We shared a lot in common when we sat down, we tossed the football around a little bit in my office. … We’re going to work well together if he gets elected.”
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
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