Just Stop Oil

[lazythursday]

'linear'?

This thread is about JSO, I don't know what other groups exist that are taking actions so I'm not commenting on them. If that's linear, oh well.

An issue can make it into the news but how it's framed is what's important. If pople hear about this all the time, but only in a negative "these people want to ruin your holiday" context, are they going to draw positive conclusions or think "fuck off JSO"?


I mean airport protests don't affect me, I don't fly. But that isn't really the point. This is the summer holidays and there may be some, maybe many, working class families taking themsleves for the one holiday they can afford, now possibly missing a flight or having to cancel. What impact does that have on the oil industry or the government? Fuck all

As to that study. It's hard to parse because I dont really speak their language, but it said this on the issue of question 3, support for climate policies:

I'm sure some people will disagree with me vehemently on this but I don't have a problem with fucking up a small number of working class families' foreign holidays. Climate change - both the impacts of it and the policies needed to combat it - will be massively disruptive to everyday life as we have lived it. Air travel, while not the biggest issue / source of carbon - is particularly symbolic, because it's generally much less necessary than other emitting activities, the bulk of flying is by a relatively small group of people, its rapidly growing when it should be being capped at the very least and whatever tripe is being spouted this week about sustainable fuels there is really no alternative other than reducing the amount we fly. The days of jetting off for a weekend really have to stop. That may be painful and not what people want to hear but it's the facts. Air travel should be disrupted, until policies are in place to heavily tax frequent flyers and actively manage / ration the amount of flying down to a level that fits with global carbon budgets.

 

[hash tag]

I see just stop oil were protesting at Heathrow early with two arrests.

 

[Karl Masks]

I'm sure some people will disagree with me vehemently on this but I don't have a problem with fucking up a small number of working class families' foreign holidays. Climate change - both the impacts of it and the policies needed to combat it - will be massively disruptive to everyday life as we have lived it.

So what would be an example of an activity you wouldn't support? After all the impact of climate change could be used to justify almost any form of protest?

 

[ddraig]

So tedious and so so dense, on top of the inflated self importance
Pathetic attempt at hypocrisy hunting now too! well done

 

[lazythursday]

So what would be an example of an activity you wouldn't support? After all the impact of climate change could be used to justify almost any form of protest?

I wouldn't support some kind of violent attack (,bombing, etc) that had a high probability of casualties amongst public or ordinary workers.

But yes, given the stakes, I think you can make a moral case for some quite extreme action.

Although I'm defending JSO here I'm not actually convinced their strategy is correct. I'm just loathe to criticise people who are putting their futures on the line in this way - given that so many alternatives have been tried and not really moved the dial.

Though there was a period back in 2018/19 ish when XR and the school strikes definitely galvanised action. But that was a moment in time that I'm not sure is easily repeated.

 

[Pickman's model]

I wouldn't support some kind of violent attack (,bombing, etc) that had a high probability of casualties amongst public or ordinary workers.

But yes, given the stakes, I think you can make a moral case for some quite extreme action.

Although I'm defending JSO here I'm not actually convinced their strategy is correct. I'm just loathe to criticise people who are putting their futures on the line in this way - given that so many alternatives have been tried and not really moved the dial.

Though there was a period back in 2018/19 ish when XR and the school strikes definitely galvanised action. But that was a moment in time that I'm not sure is easily repeated.

How high a probability?

 

[lazythursday]

How high a probability?

I've only read the introduction of How to Blow Up a Pipeline, I'm hoping Malm has done the maths on that one.

 

[Karl Masks]

I wouldn't support some kind of violent attack (,bombing, etc) that had a high probability of casualties amongst public or ordinary workers.

Why? If more people are going to die because of climate change, which is the logic being used, then why not?

But yes, given the stakes, I think you can make a moral case for some quite extreme action.

It' snot a moral case. Blowing people up is immoral (IMO). It's based on the reasoning that the impact of climate change is more severe. If a fewpeople die in a JSO action then it's nothing compared to how many people will die if climate change isn't stopped.

Although I'm defending JSO here I'm not actually convinced their strategy is correct. I'm just loathe to criticise people who are putting their futures on the line in this way - given that so many alternatives have been tried and not really moved the dial.

Surely you should cricitise them because you want them to succeed? Not because what they are doing is risky

 

[lazythursday]

Why? If more people are going to die because of climate change, which is the logic being used, then why not?

It' snot a moral case. Blowing people up is immoral (IMO). It's based on the reasoning that the impact of climate change is more severe. If a fewpeople die in a JSO action then it's nothing compared to how many people will die if climate change isn't stopped.

Surely you should cricitise them because you want them to succeed? Not because what they are doing is risky

We all have our own moral/ethical framework around political action, and when violence can be justified. It's very much a live debate within the climate movement. JSO are not blowing up anything, people or infrastructure, so can't really see the relevance of going down this particular ethical rabbit hole.

I want JSO's objective to be realised, alongside many other climate policies. The reality is that JSO are one of many actors in this space. What they do has an impact but their protests are just part of the picture. I'm unsure how effective they are but I also don't think the argument that they're counter productive really stands up to scrutiny.

 

[hash tag]

"climate political prisoners"
From JSO
"A little over a month ago there were no climate political prisoners in UK prisons, now there are 21. This clamp down is a coordinated move from the state to crush effective, disruptive climate action through aggressive, repressive policing and sham trials conducted by highly motivated judges"

 

[nightowl]

If the JSO protests are about gaining publicity then they're a success. If they're about winning people over then it's difficult to imagine that annoying ordinary people just trying to get to work or take their family on holiday is going to achieve that.

 

[mojo pixy]

Among other things they're about causing a tiny hint of the harm and disruption climate change is increasingly going to cause all by itself if we don't act now. This doesn't get articulated often enough.

 

[kabbes]

Many of the things Just Stop Oil were agitating for have now become mainstream ideas and even government policy (eg no new North Sea oil exploration). So where is the evidence that their activity has been counterproductive?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Just Stop Oil activists jailed after M25 blocked

Five people are jailed and another given a suspended sentence for widespread disruption in 2022.

www.bbc.co.uk

The judge said the court "accepts a conscientious motive may be a relevant consideration".

However he said "your actions were disproportionate to your aims".

Presumably you need a bit of brains and that to be a judge, so how the fuck did he come out with that steaming pile of bollocks?

 

[8ball]

Many of the things Just Stop Oil were agitating for have now become mainstream ideas and even government policy (eg no new North Sea oil exploration). So where is the evidence that their activity has been counterproductive?

They were always mainstream ideas.

 

[kabbes]

They were always mainstream ideas.

“Always”?

 

[hash tag]

If the JSO protests are about gaining publicity then they're a success. If they're about winning people over then it's difficult to imagine that annoying ordinary people just trying to get to work or take their family on holiday is going to achieve that.

JSO certainly see it as a success
"And what a success it was. Our common banner, 'Oil Kills', was mentioned over 2,900 times in the press. The Fossil Fuel Non-Proliferation Treaty initiative has also never been attracting this much media attention worldwide, with an increase of over 1,000% in mentions over the previous week. Our actions drew comment from politicians, government officials and from the Vice President of Equinor. We were hard to ignore."

 

[hash tag]

I've just received an email saying the protests are over (for now?).

 

[BigTom]

I've just received an email saying the protests are over (for now?).

Labour have said thye would stop new oil and gas licences in the north sea, which is what JSO wanted or at least their main demand so it would make sense they would stop.

 

[Dystopiary]

Labour have said thye would stop new oil and gas licences in the north sea, which is what JSO wanted or at least their main demand so it would make sense they would stop.

I'll believe it when I see it. The self-proclaimed party of business have told so many lies already.

 

[Happy Tree]

I was all for saving the planet n'at, but then protests inconvenienced me so fuck it. That'll show 'em.

 

[Serge Forward]

Was was all the "two tier Kier" bollocks about? Three years for being a bit mithersome.
Five Just Stop Oil supporters handed up to three year sentences as prisons overflow and UN chief warns of ‘Red-Alert’ for humanity – Just Stop Oil

 

[Pickman's model]

Was was all the "two tier Kier" bollocks about? Three years for being a bit mithersome.
Five Just Stop Oil supporters handed up to three year sentences as prisons overflow and UN chief warns of ‘Red-Alert’ for humanity – Just Stop Oil

All of us have a five year sentence with scant chance of time off for good behaviour while the vile starmer remains in downing street