platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
No I think detaining a few randoms on a street isn't a reasonable or effective way to protest about anything.
Just Stop Oil
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No I think detaining a few randoms on a street isn't a reasonable or effective way to protest about anything.
Posting on here isn’t an effective way of moaning about it.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Unlike JSO, I'm not claiming to be effective.
Peter Painter
Well-Known Member
How much more consciousness raising is really needed though?
Isn't pretty much everyone aware of the issues anyway? As far as I can tell most people know what's happening and are aware that the temperatures are rising and ice is melting, that fires and floods are only going to increase unless there is immediate and dramatic change. Of these people, I suspect that many doubt that enough will be done in time to avert catastrophe for humanity.
Then there is the minority of people who steadfastly refuse to accept that human actions are in anyway responsible for what's happening. I find this stance rather ridiculous but there are enough doubters out there who won't change their minds whatever facts or consciousness raising they're confronted with.
Something needs to be done and the JSO protesters realise this and are trying to do something. Whether what they're doing is in anyway useful - or is even counter productive - is clearly the debate here and elsewhere.
But for those, including myself, who are doubtful of some of JSO and ER's tactics, the question should be, what else could or should they be doing instead that would help advance the implementing of the necessary changes in this country and also globally?
I don't have an answer.
Isn't pretty much everyone aware of the issues anyway? As far as I can tell most people know what's happening and are aware that the temperatures are rising and ice is melting, that fires and floods are only going to increase unless there is immediate and dramatic change. Of these people, I suspect that many doubt that enough will be done in time to avert catastrophe for humanity.
Then there is the minority of people who steadfastly refuse to accept that human actions are in anyway responsible for what's happening. I find this stance rather ridiculous but there are enough doubters out there who won't change their minds whatever facts or consciousness raising they're confronted with.
Something needs to be done and the JSO protesters realise this and are trying to do something. Whether what they're doing is in anyway useful - or is even counter productive - is clearly the debate here and elsewhere.
But for those, including myself, who are doubtful of some of JSO and ER's tactics, the question should be, what else could or should they be doing instead that would help advance the implementing of the necessary changes in this country and also globally?
I don't have an answer.
Pretty sure a lot of JSO are working people as well - as mentioned your just echoing the right to pretend they care about working people when actually it’s the status quo being threatened that really worries them.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Care to explain how detaining random people going about their day is a) effective at changing the status quo, b) something that only the right can reasonably object to?
Flavour
hang the bankers
At least you get the question and admit you don't have an answer. Unlike perennial moaner platinumsage for whom everything is ineffectual or counter-productive and there is no engagement with the question.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Arguably that is exactly what is needed.
It is beyond clear that those in charge are not going to anything of their own accord.
They will need to be forced.
Who are the only people with the means to force them?
"Working people".
If working people are unable to go about their "personal business" then - to borrow a phrase from an earlier struggle - the war is being brought home and their immediate interests are in forcing change.
It's not an argument or strategy that I think will work, or would advocate but it's better than waiting for the market to solve it or for the formation of the correct mass revolutionary Party or just hoping it will all blow over by tea time.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Except I don't think that "bringing the war home" is what JSO's actions are doing. They're not big enough for that, and for the relative handful of people caught up in such actions, of those who become flustered, irritated, or even angered because their progress is being impeded by a bunch of people who chose to start slowly walking along the middle of the road, they're not going to be in a receptive or reflective frame of mind. They're gonna be thinking, "why are you idiots getting in my way? Fucking move!". The people who don't become worked up are either apathetic ("I get paid no matter what/I'm in no hurry") or already on-board ("right on!").
I'm not convinced that JSO have a good grasp of the psychological impact of these kind of actions.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Why is it better if you don't think it will work and won't advocate it?
It's like saying "I don't like the increasing influence of social media but I don't know how to protest against it either, so I'm going to go around grabbing people's phones and throwing them into the river, which won't be effective and I don't advocate but it's better than waiting for regulators or the social media companies to improve things"
That’s not what I’m talking about - but the right wing language you’re happily using to try and discredit JSO. Be honest with yourself - nothing they would do would change your opinion.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
... because there's a small chance I'm wrong and it will work.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
It's causing disruption which is getting the issue into the media and being talked about.
If you weigh up the inconvenience being caused to a small number of people Vs the planet being screwed then it's something only an idiot or a right winger can object to.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I daresay the fires in Greece have done rather more to get people talking about the matter than every action jso have ever undertaken. You make it sound like no one was concerned about climate change till jso came along, which is very far from the case
If the consequences of climate change are the only way people will pay enough attention I suspect that’s too late - in fact we seem to have already moved on to how we manage it. Guy on R4 this morning saying maybe people should start flying to Greece at different times of the year when it’s cooler! We’re fucked.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yup. It got to the we're fucked point when siberia started burning and having zombie fires. And the permafrost melting. Fuck knows what's going on there now, the science is a casualty of the war in Ukraine.
editor
hiraethified
The fact that you're droning on and on and on about it means that they're doing exactly what they set out to do.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Nope, instead of discussing climate change in the climate change forum I've been diverted into this.
The same applies to the media - "what shall we talk about in our climate change segment today?", "let's discuss JSO's tactics"
See above
This would be true only if JSO's protests were effective.
Flavour
hang the bankers
How could JSO's protests be more effective? Tell us what they should be doing, not what they shouldn't be doing.
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Can't vouch for the accuracy of this clip and/or what they claim it represents. It is from a dodgy right-wing channel. It claims that its from a banquet put on Just Stop Oil, which is interrupted by alarms hidden in ballons.
I have to admit its a well-done prank (if true). Climate protestors and others should take notes and replicate it for right-wing events. It balances a lack of harm with just the right amount of disruption. I'd like to see JSO do creative things like this.
I have to admit its a well-done prank (if true). Climate protestors and others should take notes and replicate it for right-wing events. It balances a lack of harm with just the right amount of disruption. I'd like to see JSO do creative things like this.
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Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
That'll learn them
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
Not the point.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
You think there’s actually a climate change segment?. That this stuff is being talked about?
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
I think it's perfectly valid to criticise something they are doing without having to brainstorm what they should be doing instead - that's on them.
However I have already covered this. Basically any direct action that targets things they are protesting about (seems to be oil). For example I previously mentioned the North Sea Transition Authority - have they still not done that yet?
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
The only really bad thing about JSO is that it provokes rubbish like this.
It's been reported in the press and this report suggests that they reported it on their own channel so probably legit.
Just Stop Oil disrupted again as counter-protesters set off alarms hidden in balloons at celebration feast
Just Stop Oil have been targeted again - with their nemesis counter-group disrupting a banquet held by the eco-zealots' by setting off rape alarms tied to balloons.
www.lbc.co.uk
editor
hiraethified
Way to go for posh pranksters to fuck up an environmental campaign group in return for $$$$$$ for their YouTube channel. The Daily Mail readers love them, of course.
The one about a tree falling in the woods works better.
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