Just Stop Oil

[yield]

What are you for platinumsage, what do you believe in?

 

[redsquirrel]

Would a protest at the North Sea Transition Authority have its legitimacy in any way devalued if such a protest were to inconvenience a pregnant woman?

They did say direct action rather than a protest.

Though someone (I think Rob Ray) has already pointed out that (1) direct action against such targets is very hard and (2) actually gets less press coverage than their civil disobedience protests.
That said I do think a greater emphasis on direct action by JSO (and XR etc) would be good (although hard)

 

[kabbes]

Arguably that is exactly what is needed.

It is beyond clear that those in charge are not going to anything of their own accord.

They will need to be forced.

Who are the only people with the means to force them?

"Working people".

If working people are unable to go about their "personal business" then - to borrow a phrase from an earlier struggle - the war is being brought home and their immediate interests are in forcing change.

It's not an argument or strategy that I think will work, or would advocate but it's better than waiting for the market to solve it or for the formation of the correct mass revolutionary Party or just hoping it will all blow over by tea time.

The only thing I disagree with here is that I think it is working. They are having an effect on what is being spoken about that is way out of proportion to their size or activity. These disruptions generate very widespread noise from only a tiny handful of people. And they’re already getting direct results (like forcing the Marathon organisers to engage with them) and indirect ones (corporate and government attempts to show their green credentials).

 

[platinumsage]

Would a protest at the North Sea Transition Authority have its legitimacy in any way devalued if such a protest were to inconvenience a pregnant woman?

No, it's like the difference between a tube strike inconveniencing people and JSO protesters climbing on a tube train inconveniencing people. One is a reasonable protest with justifiable inconvenience, and the other is an unreasonable protest with unjustifiable inconvenience.

 

[Rob Ray]

I daresay the fires in Greece have done rather more to get people talking about the matter than every action jso have ever undertaken. You make it sound like no one was concerned about climate change till jso came along, which is very far from the case

Tbf the last couple of days of newspaper front pages have involved giant pictures of Greek wildfires right next to stories about Starmer pretending he never liked the ULEZ anyway and Sunak disassociating himself from his own climate action plans. If a minor apocalypse happening in our geographic next door isn't going to concentrate minds it'll have to be something else that does it, whether that's JSO or something better (as ever, critics welcome to start that one).

 

[chilango]

One of the biggest successes JSO are winning is shifting ( a bit of ) the focus of conversation away from description of climate change to "what strategies are effective in stopping it".

 

[sleaterkinney]

No, it's like the difference between a tube strike inconveniencing people and JSO protesters climbing on a tube train inconveniencing people. One is a reasonable protest with justifiable inconvenience, and the other is an unreasonable protest with unjustifiable inconvenience.

So it's what they are protesting that bothers you. The effect on the passengers is the same.

 

[Pickman's model]

Tbf the last couple of days of newspaper front pages have involved giant pictures of Greek wildfires right next to stories about Starmer pretending he never liked the ULEZ anyway and Sunak disassociating himself from his own climate action plans. If a minor apocalypse happening in our geographic next door isn't going to concentrate minds it'll have to be something else that does it, whether that's JSO or something better (as ever, critics welcome to start that one).

It's just not concentrating the right ones, I suspect the people coming back from Rhodes have a rather different impression of what's important now than sunak and shammer. Don't extrapolate from what shammer and sunak are saying what other people are thinking

 

[brogdale]

It's just not concentrating the right ones, I suspect the people coming back from Rhodes have a rather different impression of what's important now than sunak and shammer. Don't extrapolate from what shammer and sunak are saying what other people are thinking

Agreed, but it can't be long before the billionaire press start telling folk about these EU fires and how the EU got their people out first, leaving the plucky Brits to their fate.

 

[platinumsage]

So it's what they are protesting that bothers you. The effect on the passengers is the same.

No it's not what they are protesting about, it's who they are targetting. The difference between intentionally punching a random child to protest against some nazis, and trying to punch a nazi but accidentally hitting a random child in the process.

 

[platinumsage]

One of the biggest successes JSO are winning is shifting ( a bit of ) the focus of conversation away from description of climate change to "what strategies are effective in stopping it".

Is it? I've not seen that tbh.

 

[Rob Ray]

It's just not concentrating the right ones

Well yes, that's rather the point. From the evidence of recent events, the production of domestic political logic seems to be working blind to what's happening outside Britain in terms of climate change. In that sense, by creating domestic disruption JSO has the right of it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Agreed, but it can't be long before the billionaire press start telling folk about these EU fires and how the EU got their people out first, leaving the plucky Brits to their fate.

Thats quite the rabbit hole you've got there

 

[Pickman's model]

Well yes, that's rather the point. From the evidence of recent events, the production of domestic political logic seems to be working blind to what's happening outside Britain in terms of climate change.

And inside, it's not like blighty's been immune from it is it

 

[Rob Ray]

Well this year it sort of has, inasmuch as we've escaped the continental heat wave thus far. They'd be having more of a struggle pulling this shit if Uxbridge was on fire right now.

 

[brogdale]

Thats quite the rabbit hole you've got there

Can't be long before that line interrupts the commentary of the war on the woke banks!

 

[brogdale]

Well this year it sort of has, inasmuch as we've escaped the continental heat wave thus far. They'd be having more of a struggle pulling this shit if Uxbridge was on fire right now.

Wennington so quickly forgotten.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It's just not concentrating the right ones, I suspect the people coming back from Rhodes have a rather different impression of what's important now than sunak and shammer. Don't extrapolate from what shammer and sunak are saying what other people are thinking

I’m not so sure. The temperatures are ridiculous but the news last night was pinning the blame for the wild fires on arson.

 

[kabbes]

Tbf the last couple of days of newspaper front pages have involved giant pictures of Greek wildfires right next to stories about Starmer pretending he never liked the ULEZ anyway and Sunak disassociating himself from his own climate action plans. If a minor apocalypse happening in our geographic next door isn't going to concentrate minds it'll have to be something else that does it, whether that's JSO or something better (as ever, critics welcome to start that one).

The fact that there are wild fires in Greece acts to amplify what JSO are saying. It underlines the need to make a noise about it. To keep things on an agenda requires a critical mass of stories that keep happening

 

[teqniq]

I’m not so sure. The temperatures are ridiculous but the news last night was pinning the blame for the wild fires on arson.

Yes many people are repeating this on Twitter as some sort of 'gotcha' and it may well be true but what they seem to overlook is that though the fires may well have been started deliberately it is the speed at which they spread due to the heat and dryness of the vegetation that is the issue and that can be attributed in whole or part to climate change.

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m not so sure. The temperatures are ridiculous but the news last night was pinning the blame for the wild fires on arson.

a variation on the auld line about outside agitators

 

[kabbes]

It’s fuckin’ 33 degrees in the shade at 8am in Larnaca — I know because my mum keeps insisting on burdening the family ‎WhatsApp group every fucking morning with photos of the thermometer. And yes, I know it’s Cyprus in July but believe me folks, that is not normal. You don’t need actual wild fires to see the very real effects of a global average temperature increase of circa one degree. But you do need people shouting about it to keep it visible.

 

[Flavour]

The Greek fires are terrible but getting more coverage because of status as UK tourist destination. Fires in Algeria getting less coverage but are just as bad if not worse. Dozens dead so far. Sicily also badly hit.

The latest Sunak u-turn is a horror show.

 

[platinumsage]

It’s fuckin’ 33 degrees in the shade at 8am in Larnaca — I know because my mum keeps insisting on burdening the family ‎WhatsApp group every fucking morning with photos of the thermometer. You don’t need actual wild fires to see the very real effects of a global average temperature increase of circa one degree. But you do need people shouting about it to keep it visible.

I'm not sure that JSO shouting about it is what keeps it visible:

 

[Rob Ray]

Wennington so quickly forgotten.

It's a major part of the problem that crises are being replaced with new ones so quickly most of it goes straight in and out, barely touching the sides.

 

[kabbes]

Oh wow, a small story embedded in the BBC website. That’ll keep it as a thing people are talking about. And the fact that the BBC talk about it has nothing to do with JSO shouting about it, of course. Totally unrelated.

 

[platinumsage]

Oh wow, a small story embedded in the BBC website. That’ll keep it as a thing people are talking about. And the fact that the BBC talk about it has nothing to do with JSO shouting about it, of course. Totally unrelated.

Yes, the nature of BBC coverage was exactly the same before JSO came along.

 

[Karl Masks]

I’m not so sure. The temperatures are ridiculous but the news last night was pinning the blame for the wild fires on arson.

THey are desperately leaning into that, as fires break out across the islands. And the world. Arson hasn't yet been established, clearly they have to investigate all possibilities.

One of the biggest successes JSO are winning is shifting ( a bit of ) the focus of conversation away from description of climate change to "what strategies are effective in stopping it".

I don't see that in their tweets. Just clips of people shouting at them as they slow walk, or of members getting released from prison.

 

[lazythursday]

Every single wild fire outbreak everywhere around the globe is blamed on arsonists, every single time - it's now a well worn piece of propaganda and as stated above, the cause of the start of the fire makes zero difference to the argument about climate change anyway.

 

[Rob Ray]

The actual process there is that humans made the conditions for wildfires to become catastrophic, then started some.