Just Stop Oil

[edcraw]

Good to see me have a healthy number of psychopaths on the forum!!

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Good to see me have a healthy number of psychopaths on the forum!!

Slapping a fascist is more civic duty than psychopathy.

 

[Orang Utan]

Like the Unabomber?

No

 

[editor]

The planet's fucking burning and people are whining and whinging that their bus was ever so slightly delayed.

 

[editor]

My sympathy has lessened at their lack of response to physical aggression. Makes them look a bit pathetic.

Yeah because random street violence is definitely what's called for here.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yeah because random street violence is definitely what's called for here.

They got attacked. They shouldn’t defend themselves? (They didn’t, as it happens).

 

[editor]

They got attacked. They shouldn’t defend themselves? (They didn’t, as it happens).

They're a non violent organisation:

Just Stop Oil is committed to nonviolent action and everyone joining us in action must do the nonviolence training.

This training will prepare you for what you might experience if you decide to take action with us.

You'll learn what nonviolence is and why it's so powerful. You'll get to connect with like minded people who share your hopes and fears. You'll learn techniques to remain calm and grounded when things are tense and practice the skills to de-escalate the situation when someone is getting angry. You'll also have a chance to put it into practice by role playing some typical scenarios that come up when we do a slow march or a road block.

Our training is specifically tailored to Just Stop Oil's tactics and civil resistance community so even if you've had previous similar training it is still essential you attend ours for your own safety as well as that of your team and members of the public.

Just Stop Oil Nonviolent Action Training - London

Just Stop Oil is committed to nonviolent action and everyone joining us in action must do the nonviolence training.

www.eventbrite.co.uk

 

[Magnus McGinty]

They're a non violent organisation:

I asked what you thought not what they think. Never mind.

 

[editor]

I asked what you thought not what they think. Never mind.

I totally support their non violent stance. By reacting to violent meatheads they would completely undermine their message and lead to more unpleasant confrontations and give the right wing press a field day.
What's your stance? Are you all for big mass brawls in the street?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I totally support their non violent stance. By reacting to violent meatheads they would completely undermine their message and lead to more unpleasant confrontations and give the right wing press a field day.
What's your stance? Are you all for big mass brawls in the street?

If someone stuck one on me I’d probably try and defend myself rather than curl up and die. And it’s perfectly legal to do so. Not sure that equates to being ‘all for big mass brawls in the street’.

 

[edcraw]

Obviously there are people that will criticise JSO no matter what they do & will claim that by doing/not doing something they will lose support. It’s bollocks - and they won’t support JSO no matter what and should just admit that rather than argue in bad faith.

 

[Artaxerxes]

My sympathy has lessened at their lack of response to physical aggression. Makes them look a bit pathetic.

Wow, this is the worst take I’ve seen on something in some time. That’s an impressive feat

“You stuck to your non-violence and just let them hit you, how pathetic”

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Wow, this is the worst take I’ve seen on something in some time. That’s an impressive feat

“You stuck to your non-violence and just let them hit you, how pathetic”

Surely the non violence is the protest though. That doesn’t necessarily cover being under attack does it?

 

[platinumsage]

Throwing orange rubbish on a sports pitch is non-violent, detaining random members of the public on the street is not.

 

[klang]

Throwing orange rubbish on a sports pitch is non-violent, detaining random members of the public on the street is not.

the bigger inconvenience is a burning planet, I'm afraid.

 

[platinumsage]

the bigger inconvenience is a burning planet, I'm afraid.

The point I was addressing was whether the JSO protest was non-violent, which it wasn't.

Planet burning is a separate issue unrelated to whether JSO members walk slowly in a road.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

the bigger inconvenience is a burning planet, I'm afraid.

Holding up traffic likely contributes to this phenomenon unfortunately.

 

[edcraw]

Throwing orange rubbish on a sports pitch is non-violent, detaining random members of the public on the street is not.

Think you have your definition of violent slightly wrong there - hardly a surprise. The guy carrying out the assault wasn’t even being “detained” - seems like he swerved out of his way to get involved, crashing into a van, with his pregnant partner in the car. Truly pathetic but than most people that disagree with JSO aims are.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Surely the non violence is the protest though. That doesn’t necessarily cover being under attack does it?

No the whole point of non-violence is you don’t give it back so the world sees you being kicked by the arsehole and can’t say “well they deserved it for fighting”

 

[Magnus McGinty]

No the whole point of non-violence is you don’t dig it back so the world sees you being kicked by the arsehole and can’t say “well they deserved it for fighting”

We have violent governments and people continue to vote them in. The ‘whole world’ don’t seem to have a problem with that.

 

[edcraw]

 

[platinumsage]

Think you have your definition of violent slightly wrong there - hardly a surprise. The guy carrying out the assault wasn’t even being “detained” - seems like he swerved out of his way to get involved, crashing into a van, with his pregnant partner in the car. Truly pathetic but than most people that disagree with JSO aims are.

You're a few years out of date with your definition of violence I'm afraid. These days it doesn't have to involve physical assault, see "lateral violence", "linguistic violence" and "curriculum violence" for some examples.

In that context intentionally physically detaining people on the street in order to disrupt their lives is certainly not non-violent.

 

[Artaxerxes]

We have violent governments and people continue to vote them in. The ‘whole world’ don’t seem to have a problem with that.

I’m not sure what your point is here.

Non-violent protest is a thing, that is the reason for the thing. To highlight the inhumanity of the oppressor

What a government does is on the government and the people who vote them in.

Now if your criticism is that NV protests are elevated to the only acceptable form of protest and are held up as the only right way to protest in the modern imagination which woefully underplays the role the grassroots driven property and people damage or civil disobedience played in the movements that would eventually push NV as the way to affect change.

If that’s your criticism then now we’re talking

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I’m not sure what your point is here.

Non-violent protest is a thing, that is the reason for the thing. To highlight the inhumanity of the oppressor

What a government does is on the government and the people who vote them in.

Now if your criticism is that NV protests are elevated to the only acceptable form of protest and are held up as the only right way to protest in the modern imagination which woefully underplays the role the grassroots driven property and people damage or civil disobedience played in the movements that would eventually push NV as the way to affect change.

If that’s your criticism then now we’re talking

You only oppose the status quo by building a counter power to challenge it. If you even achieve that, taking actions off the table that your opposition are willing to employ seems a bit naive in my opinion.

 

[Artaxerxes]

You only oppose the status quo by building a counter power to challenge it. If you even achieve that, taking actions off the table that your opposition are willing to employ seems a bit naive in my opinion.

Yeah well I’ll tell fucking Ghandi that next time I see him shall I?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yeah well I’ll tell fucking Ghandi that next time I see him shall I?

I thought we were discussing bottom up organisation rather than leaders.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I thought we were discussing bottom up organisation rather than leaders.

No you came out with this gem seemingly unclear what NV was which led to me giving a potted summary of it

Surely the non violence is the protest though. That doesn’t necessarily cover being under attack does it?

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m not sure what your point is here.

Non-violent protest is a thing, that is the reason for the thing. To highlight the inhumanity of the oppressor

What a government does is on the government and the people who vote them in.

Now if your criticism is that NV protests are elevated to the only acceptable form of protest and are held up as the only right way to protest in the modern imagination which woefully underplays the role the grassroots driven property and people damage or civil disobedience played in the movements that would eventually push NV as the way to affect change.

If that’s your criticism then now we’re talking

The claims often made nv is more effective than other forms of protest but the research underpinning this hasn't been properly read. It includes unarmed collective actions of all sorts including things like riots. This notion that you should be utterly nonviolent as a principle, as you propose, so people can see the violence inherent in the system is ludicrous. So they see it - they will already have seen it - then what? Pisspoor.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

No you came out with this gem seemingly unclear what NV was which led to me giving a potted summary of it

What the fuck does Gandhi have to do with what we’re discussing? Is he going to pop out of his grave and lend a fucking hand?

 

[Artaxerxes]

The claims often made nv is more effective than other forms of protest but the research underpinning this hasn't been properly read. It includes unarmed collective actions of all sorts including things like riots. This notion that you should be utterly nonviolent as a principle, as you propose, so people can see the violence inherent in the system is ludicrous. So they see it - they will already have seen it - then what? Pisspoor.

I didn’t propose it though in fact I criticised it?

What the fuck does Gandhi have to do with what we’re discussing? Is he going to pop out of his grave and lend a fucking hand?

Off you pop to the can’t be fucked list for a few days, your in fine company