Just Stop Oil

[Flavour]

As heat records break, the climate movement has the right answers – but the words are all wrong | Jonathan Freedland

The fossil fuel industry has spent billions on winning over the public. Green activists must learn from its tactics, says Guardian columnist Jonathan Freedland

www.theguardian.com

Don't necessarily agree with he says but thought the point about climate justice, net zero etc being phrases with no weight for much of the public is spot on. Too abstract. But is pollution a good enough word?

 

[stavros]

They should protest Talk TV headquarters/broadcast station

They did C4 and The Last Leg last night.

 

[Rob Ray]

Someone should inform JSO about this "spending billions on corporate sponsorship, lobbyists, unscrupulous scientists and 24/7 PR machines to muddy the science and skew the tone of top-line conversation in their favour" thing, it could be a winner.

 

[8ball]

I’m reminded of when I went to the US and the form literally asked if I was planning on blowing up the plane. I wonder how many people are caught in that net.

I always figured it was to catch people who were extremely lackadaisical with regard to form filling, indicating that some manual checks might be required.

 

[edcraw]

Fuck me - this nutter wasn’t even being held up by JSO and feels free to carry out a vicious assault. No surprise we end up with this given the reaction from the right wing press and the Tories. Needs jail time for this!

 

[Orang Utan]

Can’t say I agree with their non-violent stance. That’s a bit daft

 

[Red Sky]

Can’t say I agree with their non-violent stance. That’s a bit daft

It's working well. I'm not sure what a "violent" approach to this would look like.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

I love Chris Packham

 

[edcraw]

It's working well. I'm not sure what a "violent" approach to this would look like.

Yep - very effective. Helps make those that oppose them inc. the government look unreasonable.

 

[Orang Utan]

It's working well. I'm not sure what a "violent" approach to this would look like.

I’m just talking about defending themselves against physical violence directed at them.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yep - very effective. Helps make those that oppose them inc. the government look unreasonable.

And obvs no government wants to appear unreasonable

 

[Pickman's model]

I’m just talking about defending themselves against physical violence directed at them.

Where there's 6 or 8 people who aren't street fighters, how would you suggest they defend themselves?

 

[Orang Utan]

Where there's 6 or 8 people who aren't street fighters, how would you suggest they defend themselves?

I dunno. I don’t know how to fight either but I also wouldn’t just stand there and take it, just out of self-preservation

 

[edcraw]

And obvs no government wants to appear unreasonable

I presume that sarcasm - but what government does want to seem unreasonable?

 

[Pickman's model]

I presume that sarcasm - but what government does want to seem unreasonable?

Our current one seems keen

 

[edcraw]

Our current one seems keen

They’re attacking JSO exactly because they think it will get support - instances like this will make that less likely.

 

[Pickman's model]

I dunno. I don’t know how to fight either but I also wouldn’t just stand there and take it, just out of self-preservation

I don't know if you've seen the recent ak book "street rebellion", which I strongly recommend. As that book demonstrates, the belief nonviolent protest is more effective than violent is founded on a misreading of the academic research on the subject. Yet many movements including xr and its offshoots elevate nonviolence to a point where they consider it sacrosanct. I think many of the jso people,if not all, would rather be kicked shitless and warm themselves with the cosy feeling of martyrdom than dream of throwing a punch, no matter how ineffectual. Their current tactics are imo wholly lacking in any sort of nous, they seem to me more likely to repel the sympathetic than attract them displaying as they do contempt for everyone else. It's like that stupid stunt at Stratford repeated ad nauseum.

 

[Pickman's model]

They’re attacking JSO exactly because they think it will get support - instances like this will make that less likely.

There was a brief slow march by Highbury corner yesterday which briefly delayed the bus I was on. None of the passengers on their way to work or whatnot seemed supportive of the group, quite the contrary by what was said. Jso make it very difficult to support them.

 

[Orang Utan]

I don't know if you've seen the recent ak book "street rebellion", which I strongly recommend. As that book demonstrates, the belief nonviolent protest is more effective than violent is founded on a misreading of the academic research on the subject. Yet many movements including xr and its offshoots elevate nonviolence to a point where they consider it sacrosanct. I think many of the jso people,if not all, would rather be kicked shitless and warm themselves with the cosy feeling of martyrdom than dream of throwing a punch, no matter how ineffectual. Their current tactics are imo wholly lacking in any sort of nous, they seem to me more likely to repel the sympathetic than attract them displaying as they do contempt for everyone else. It's like that stupid stunt at Stratford repeated ad nauseum.

I’ve not seen that book, but will seek it out - thanks.
I used to be a pacifist but am not so sure now, so need some more food for thought

 

[edcraw]

There was a brief slow march by Highbury corner yesterday which briefly delayed the bus I was on. None of the passengers on their way to work or whatnot seemed supportive of the group, quite the contrary by what was said. Jso make it very difficult to support them.

I think you need to reread my point. Not saying they have majority support but that people beating them up in public will increase their support not harm it.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think you need to reread my point. Not saying they have majority support but that people beating them up in public will increase their support not harm it.

I admire your optimism

 

[edcraw]

I admire your optimism

You only need to do that if you feel no sympathy for people you see being beaten up.

 

[Pickman's model]

You only need to do that if you feel no sympathy for people you see being beaten up.

I have seen plenty of people beaten up for who I had and have no sympathy. Being beaten up can be richly merited. Would you feel sympathy for eg fascists being attacked? Or cops? E2a it's also hard to rustle up much sympathy for people like those who climbed on the train at Stratford. Sure, jso oppose global warming, but that doesn't mean their tactics should be applauded. For me the entire xr family undermine the cause they aspire to promote

 

[klang]

I feel sorry for the woman who seems to be the partner / mate of the merc-driver. She seems genuinely shocked and terrified. The way he shuffles her back into the car is horrible.

 

[edcraw]

I have seen plenty of people beaten up for who I had and have no sympathy. Being beaten up can be richly merited. Would you feel sympathy for eg fascists being attacked? Or cops? E2a it's also hard to rustle up much sympathy for people like those who climbed on the train at Stratford. Sure, jso oppose global warming, but that doesn't mean their tactics should be applauded. For me the entire xr family undermine the cause they aspire to promote

No, I don’t take pleasure in seeing anyone beaten up. Think that speaks a lot about where you’re coming from and doubt anything XR etc did would win you over short of assaulting oil execs & politicians I guess.

 

[Pickman's model]

No, I don’t take pleasure in seeing anyone beaten up. Think that speaks a lot about where you’re coming from and doubt anything XR etc did would win you over short of assaulting oil execs & politicians I guess.

Au contraire. There are a host of things they could do that would win not only my backing but also widespread support but atm their tactics are imo really rather substitutionist and to say it again unlikely to win the support the cause deserves.

 

[Orang Utan]

You only need to do that if you feel no sympathy for people you see being beaten up.

My sympathy has lessened at their lack of response to physical aggression. Makes them look a bit pathetic.

 

[Orang Utan]

No, I don’t take pleasure in seeing anyone beaten up. Think that speaks a lot about where you’re coming from and doubt anything XR etc did would win you over short of assaulting oil execs & politicians I guess.

I think this will or even should be the next step tbf

 

[chilango]

I came across a JSO protest in London yesterday. I hung around for a while because they were getting hefty abuse and I wanted to be able to intervene should they get attacked like in the video above.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I think this will or even should be the next step tbf

Like the Unabomber?