slow burner movie that was reminiscent of 80's downtown US.
enjoyed it but was expecting more of Killing Joke (one of my fav comic books of my childhood).
slow burner movie that was reminiscent of 80's downtown US.
enjoyed it but was expecting more of Killing Joke (one of my fav comic books of my childhood).
I was in my late teens, I guess, when that comic came out. I found it quite disturbing, the violence visited upon Barbara Gordon was very graphic. Joker is easy going, by comparison.
The bit where Bruce's parents were killed. Massively shoehorned in.
Why would they be going up the pictures right in the middle of a riot against them, let alone without bodyguards.
The bit where Bruce's parents were killed. Massively shoehorned in.
Why would they be going up the pictures right in the middle of a riot against them, let alone without bodyguards.
In Joker 2019, an unidentified man dressed in a Joker mask murders the Waynes during a riot, making it the second film to imply the Joker is linked to the Waynes' deaths,
In Joker 2019, an unidentified man dressed in a Joker mask murders the Waynes during a riot, making it the second film to imply the Joker is linked to the Waynes' deaths,
The clear highlight for me was Phoenix as the Joker. He doesn’t quite have the charisma of Ledger or Nicholson but he was darker than both and, for this film, that worked well.
I’m not sure it will age well though overall. As a metaphor for our times it didn’t really say anything about anything other than what an incoherent mess we are as a whole, and that is hardly a unique take on the human experience. Entertaining and engaging but ultimately unrewarding. It was a bit like watching a band with a great sound but no actual tunes.
The female roles were a particular disappointment. Both his mother and the neighbour/love interest were reduced to feeble servitude and the misogyny that ran through the whole piece was epitomised by the old lady on the chat show who sat as if in comedic shock after being sexually assaulted in front of a live audience.
Iirc, that skewed take on reality is a staple of the Joker, remember Heath Ledger's various versions on how he got his "smile". Which one was real, if any etc...
The clear highlight for me was Phoenix as the Joker. He doesn’t quite have the charisma of Ledger or Nicholson but he was darker than both and, for this film, that worked well.
I’m not sure it will age well though overall. As a metaphor for our times it didn’t really say anything about anything other than what an incoherent mess we are as a whole, and that is hardly a unique take on the human experience. Entertaining and engaging but ultimately unrewarding. It was a bit like watching a band with a great sound but no actual tunes.
The female roles were a particular disappointment. Both his mother and the neighbour/love interest were reduced to feeble servitude and the misogyny that ran through the whole piece was epitomised by the old lady on the chat show who sat as if in comedic shock after being sexually assaulted in front of a live audience.
The clear highlight for me was Phoenix as the Joker. He doesn’t quite have the charisma of Ledger or Nicholson but he was darker than both and, for this film, that worked well.
I’m not sure it will age well though overall. As a metaphor for our times it didn’t really say anything about anything other than what an incoherent mess we are as a whole, and that is hardly a unique take on the human experience. Entertaining and engaging but ultimately unrewarding. It was a bit like watching a band with a great sound but no actual tunes.
The female roles were a particular disappointment. Both his mother and the neighbour/love interest were reduced to feeble servitude and the misogyny that ran through the whole piece was epitomised by the old lady on the chat show who sat as if in comedic shock after being sexually assaulted in front of a live audience.
Oh I don’t know. I thought Frances Conroy brought real depth to her role, and when her “secret” is discovered, and then her real secret is discovered we see her character as much more than feeble.
I count 3 important female characters. (Mother, neighbour, social worker). Plus other incidental ones. It’s not fifty fifty and it doesn’t pass beschdel- but that doesn’t make it misogynist from where I sit.
The bit where Bruce's parents were killed. Massively shoehorned in.
Why would they be going up the pictures right in the middle of a riot against them, let alone without bodyguards.
I count 3 important female characters. (Mother, neighbour, social worker). Plus other incidental ones. It’s not fifty fifty and it doesn’t pass beschdel- but that doesn’t make it misogynist from where I sit.
Oh there were definitely important female characters in the film, but I didn’t think they were ever developed beyond being props to Arthur; they created no force of their own on screen and came across as rather meek I thought. Many of the men he encountered, by contrast, were actively confrontational so their relative servitude was not required by the plot.
The neighbour was presented as almost childlike, and the social worker was a somewhat exasperated figure who made little attempt to bring anything of substance out of Arthur. She seemed bored. The mother clearly had a huge influence on Arthur but was so diminished by her condition that her influence had to be presented vicariously through Wayne, via letter or via documents he got from the Council. Ultimately she was uncovered as a sick, pathetic, dishonest child abuser. Even Norma Bates got her own voice!
Perhaps misogynist is too strong and in any case you are better placed than me to judge the tone from a female perspective, I just felt there was a slight undercurrent throughout. Perhaps all the incel chatter around the film has played a part in that though.
The film ends the way it does because it’s not going framed to be part of the franchise or any of the rebooted universes. If it ended as you suggest, it would absolutely allow the film to be read as the setup for a future batman incarnation. But this film isn’t interested in that.
His speech on the talk show - too on-the-nose. Reminded me of the similar speech in Natural Born Killers - show not tell innit.
And where you realise the relationship with Sophie was all in his head - was redundant showing you the scenes with them together then him alone in the same scene.
The audience largely aren't idiots, we know what it meant
Finally saw it last night, much better than I'd feared, not quite as good as many claim. Tho I love Taxi Driver, King of Comedy & Network, so was always going to enjoy large parts of it, I suppose.
While the fear that it might provide a hero for the Incel movement, that's clearly a nonsense and the movies politics are definitely on the right side. There are some magnificent bits, Phoenix in general is brilliant, wipes out any memory of that awful Nicholson performance in the same role. And it, generally, includes enough key references from the comics without shoehorning them in.
But...lots of it just doesn't make any sense, unless it is (like the last scene it copies from Taxi Driver), all completely fictional bullshit in Arthur's head.
Whether or not Penny Fleck was abused by Wayne or someone else, there is no chance whatsoever she would have got Arthur back afterwards. They would never have seen each other again.
Rather more centrally, the whole interaction with Rupert Pupkin would never have happened. Arthur would not have been filmed at that comedy club, the clip would not have been shown on the show, and he wouldn't be invited on afterwards.
Oh, and I'm not really sure what the point of Zadie Beetz was except to show that Arthur wasn't racist.
Still, even with those criticisms, it was a very entertaining couple of hours. And the use of Rock n Roll is brilliant.
Perhaps they just thought she would be good in the part? I don't see why her blackness has to be saying anything in particular if that's what you mean. If you mean the character as a whole then I think you've drastically missed the point somewhere.
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