Jobcentres tricking people off benefits

[tufty79]

Oh and if anyone would like to be an admin or has any suggestions, ideas or recommendations about the fb side of it all, please shout me or drew

 

[Treacle Toes]

Comparing DWP workers to Nazi concentration camp guards is a bit harsh isn't it?

Of course it is.

 

[tufty79]

Can someone who isn't me give bluestreak a nudge towards this thread, please? I think he's been eulogising about this sort of thing for a while, and might have some time on his hands when he comes back to london...

 

[ymu]

Can we have a volunteer National Press Officer, please?

 

[tufty79]

If we've not got one here, i think my old comms colleague might be up for it. Also know someone who provides citizen journalism training in london oh, got a few links to self advocacy classes/groups as well.... right, i think i should probably put the coffee down for a bit

 

[ymu]

Aces!

Citizen journalism and community film-making would be very powerful. You can do it with a £30 mobile and a cheap computer these days.

We need services for, but not divisions between, unemployed, low-paid, part-time, zero-hours, benefit or tax-credit dependent, in education or training, or struggling to afford childcare.

Look to work with a struggling local cafe or pub or business with spare space to set up a social and resource centre, with creche and community union tea-shop and/or subsidised prices supported by donations from the better off and internet-based fund-raising.

Cost of setting up a new branch is £250-£500 depending on whether they need to purchase basic kitchen equipment or not, with ongoing costs of around £30/month for phone and internet. National fund-raising should be enough to cover that for every branch. Membership is free and no member is expected to cobtribute financially, although all are encouraged to contribute their time.

 

[tufty79]

Laptop fixer's en route someone's asked for a clear statement of belief and intent - do we have one? (also i don't appear to be able to ok requests to join from my phone, apologies for delays etc. Definitely need an admin who's not phone access based! might be worth making it a community page or something instead or as well as?)

 

[ymu]

I'll volunteer to be the NUWU and union coordinator, including with the TUC and other unions. Technically, I am unemployed at the moment, although I expect to be self-employed shortly.

Can someone who isn't me give bluestreak a nudge towards this thread, please? I think he's been eulogising about this sort of thing for a while, and might have some time on his hands when he comes back to london...

Yes please! Bluey, we need you.

Laptop fixer's en route someone's asked for a clear statement of belief and intent - do we have one? (also i don't appear to be able to ok requests to join from my phone, apologies for delays etc. Definitely need an admin who's not phone access based! might be worth making it a community page or something instead or as well as?)

I think this thread stands as a statement of intent. Anyone can add to it, and it is up to local members to shape their local branches.

Direct democracy.

As for beliefs, I would propose this:

There are several elements of the New Deal that are not well understood by today's politicians. Here’s just three of them:

1. The New Deal introduced unionization. Because an economy cannot thrive (internally, at least) if its workers do not earn enough to buy the goods that they make. It is said that when Henry Ford was asked why he didn’t use more robots, he replied: “Robots don’t buy cars.” Unionization and collective bargaining were, and are, fundamental elements in the structure of a more stable capitalism.

2. The New Deal introduced a fledgling welfare state (which has, alarmingly, now all but gasped its last breath in the US). This set a safety net below which employers simply could not force workers to go. There was a limit to the downward pressure on wages from the high unemployment that capitalism requires.

Ever wonder why the CBI speak out against caps on immigration, but never against making it difficult for immigrants to work legally? Or why India is taking its census seriously now that they need a larger middle-class? Because they need a functioning welfare state for that to happen. The welfare state keeps people educated, housed, fed, healthy, and able to work (the US never quite got around to the healthy bit though) . This boosts the economy, no matter what those self-serving, venal, ignorant, lying politicians say on behalf of the only voters that matter to them their careers: the top 0.1%.

Most of this government are in the top 0.1% of course. So it’s all pretty tightly stitched up now.

3. The New Deal split the banks into retail or investment, but not both. This was to guarantee that the people would never again pay the losses of professionally incompetent and greedy individuals, pocketing their gains but nationalizing their losses. Retail banking (your and my savings and debts) would be underwritten by the government in the event of a bank failure, but investor beware. That was the substance of the Glass-Steagall Act , 1936. It took them a while to wrestle the bankers to the ground and sit on them long enough to do it, mind.

With the dismantling of the Glass-Steagall protections in the 1980s 1990s, leading predictably to another global financial crisis now, we call for another New Deal, and a polity which properly understands and promotes the vital parts of our economic infrastructure, including:

An educated workforce: high literacy and numeracy rates, skilled workers and graduates on tap. There is no profession more productive than a teacher. It’s not possible to do better when your skills cascade out through so many children each year and on into the future of our economy for decades to come.

A welfare state: to maintain a pool of workers near places of business, without the need for employers to pay wages high enough to cover local rents. Or pass these labour costs onto customers, lest they are enticed out to poorer areas to shop, and live. And to ensure that there is some level of consumer demand even when times are hard and employment is low.

Universal healthcare: this means free at the point of delivery, paid through general , progressive taxation, with equal access to all. Big pharma and the multinationals, who between them have the US governing parties all sewn up, might hate socialized medicine because they profit massively from the sick, but health insurance cripples the competitiveness of small to medium-sized businesses who cannot compete with the big boys, in purchasing power or staff retention, when they have such massive costs to bear. What do smaller businesses think about the costs forced on them, compared to the gifts lavished on their gigantic competition
.
Is that what passes for a free market these days?

The NHS is not only the single most spectacular creation of mankind – what else can you call the third largest employer in the world, performing such a vital and complex function (no disrespect to the Indian railway workers or the Chinese Army)? And with such remarkable dedication, in the face of political attacks from all sides, nearly always eating into cash and energy and skills that could and should have gone into patient care. It’s one of the most productive things you could possibly do for a national economy. An enormous taxpayer transfer of money from vast multinationals to smaller, local employers, who will spend it locally instead of taking it out of the country. A boon, too, for entrepreneurs, who can afford to take more risks when a broken leg can’t bankrupt them.

We call for the importance of unionisation, collective bargaining, welfare rights, secure housing, universal healthcare, education and training to the national economic wellbeing, as well as its value in improving living standards for the majority un-rich. We call for our representatives in parliament to pledge to fight for our interests in the legislature, in the government, and in the courts.

We call for the abolition of VAT and it's replacement with a Land Tax, as outlined by Adam Smith, to ensure fair taxation on assets which cannot be expatriated or under-declared in value; investment in housing and vital infrastructure, especially education and training for our young and under-employed. We call for political recognition that Friedmanite policies have failed and neo-liberal economics cause instability and hardship, and for the adoption of progressive Keynesian policies, targeted at investment in collective wealth and national communal assets, not least our people.

 

[tufty79]

Excellent. Thank you. And sorry for getting a bit hijacky with the fb side of it, i just was at a severe loose end and also a bit galvanised by this thread Is this now in a publically viewable forum?

 

[ymu]

No, no. Do what you want on facebook. It's all good. Excellent, in fact.

Potential membership of 25 million. Best get cracking.

 

[yardbird]

I find it difficult to concentrate for long, so will try and read this thread all the way through tomorrow.
I would be more than willing to sit outside the jobcentre in my wheelchair handing out info leaflets.
To be honest I would like to hand out leaflets outside ATOS, who have the same agenda.

Tufty I hope you can get the laptop sorted

 

[tufty79]

ta yardie, and ta again. Good to see you on the thread. Laptop's doing recovery type things as i text if it's not fixed tonight, it's getting worked on over the next couple of days (cheers, tech support) - will make sure she lives! And yes, i'm all against ATOS too

 

[tar1984]

Get a job you wasters


Only kidding this is pretty cool I hope you have a lot of success, I have just secured part-time work it was the best I could do looking for full-time.

 

[treelover]

Shouldn't this thread be in politics where it will get more exposure?, the revelations in the G are obscene but they were also happening under NL, however, i do think that the now impossible levels of harrasment and welfare cuts will inevitably lead to new organisations being set up to support people and to challenge the new regime, but it won't be easy. I have said before on here, i used my own money to set up a local and national group aginst the initial welfare cuts, we got no interest from the unions, the churches, the left, it is maybe different now, maybe it needed a critical mass as it were before it really entered decent society's awareness, I do hope so...

 

[ymu]

Membership's open to anyone on low pay tar - hell, it's open to anyone at all. Just needs some people to be able to give their time and others to give their money and we're sorted.

 

[tufty79]

a very off topic post, but i'm typing from a working laptop with internets connection - woo. slight issue with the shift key, and can't turn it off it's a bit of a stick-and-twigs patchup, but should be properly sorted soon . appreciations.

 

[frogwoman]

I've been archiving some journals at work from the National Federation of Claimants Unions in the 70s. It was quite an eye opener.

 

[ymu]

We should definitely have stalls outside ATOS centres. Good idea.

Can you scan some stuff for the educational archives of BSBACAS, froggie? I can host stuff if you email the files to me.

We need a mod involved to move this to P&P and make us our own open forum.

 

[yardbird]

We should definitely have stalls outside ATOS centres. Good idea.

At least ATOS don't discriminate - they treat everyone like shit!

 

[rollinder]

I've got webspace with a wordpressblog that I never got round to setting up properly, going spare if that's any help.

 

[ymu]

Superb. I'm thinking that we could coordinate a blog and wiki with the forums to facilitate decision-making and develop support materials and online learning.

 

[frogwoman]

We should definitely have stalls outside ATOS centres. Good idea.

Can you scan some stuff for the educational archives of BSBACAS, froggie? I can host stuff if you email the files to me.

We need a mod involved to move this to P&P and make us our own open forum.

These are the hard copies of the journals they're not on the computers and i think i would have to ask to have access to borrow them. I can see what I can do but I'm not sure I'd be able to.

 

[ymu]

 

[RaverDrew]

Just got in from a very very long and exhausting day, too much to take in and reply to atm, but I like what I've read so far... I think



Rest is needed now, srs business to attend to tomorrow by the looks of things.

 

[ymu]

 

[ymu]

Facebook page needs to be public tufty wufty.

I'm going to break with my refusenik status and sign up.

 

[ymu]

Great stuff!

Have requested to join the group. So many members already!

 

[rollinder]

might be worth making it a community page or something instead or as well as?)

a page'll be good too (or whichever's the one that give's you a page and discussion bit as well - I can't remember)
for people who only do facebook/don't want to join another site(s) but want to post more & more detailed discussions than just wall postings. I think ?

 

[ymu]

Fuckin' hell tufters, good work!

145 facebook members already!

*faints*

 

[tar1984]

Link to the facebook page pls?

If it's been posted I missed it.