Jobcentres tricking people off benefits

[ViolentPanda]

"I'm only doing my job"

Something that I've heard from the mouths of various Jobcentre staff as they fuck with peoples lives implementing pisstaking sanctions. Which of course as we all know is the same old rhetoric as used by executioners and Nazi concentration camp guards.

Unfair, mate. Many of the folk (those that are left after several years of staffing cuts, anyway) in the JC+s actually took the jobs before all the different bits of the services (job centres, DSS office etc) all got stuck in the one building, and would have been used to VERY different work practices than what they have now.

You lot are so highly unionised, and are more than happy to regularly go running to the union and go out on strike when it affects the money in your pocket. Maybe try the same tactics when your bosses start "forcing you" to implement immoral policies ?

Morally, you're absolutely right. Practically and legally, I'm not sure that industrial action over immoral policies is permissible. If we bear in mind the legal penalties for illegal industrial action too...

 

[ViolentPanda]

What a fucking disgrace.

I feel sorry for anyone that has suffered as a result of this, it saddens me reading the posts here esp. from RaverDrew as he's been shafted twice, and I remember posting 'in support' when he posted about the case just before Christmas.



I think you mean Labour cunts.

As the report linked in the OP, and post 51 from New Deal Scanda, explains this was introduced by the last government.

I think you both mean "neo-liberal cunts".

 

[cypher79]

Yeah lets cut off people at the bottom of the ladders benefits, that'll sort the mess out that this countries in.

Seriously tho, what the fuck do they expect these people who get their benefits cut off to live on?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yeah lets cut off people at the bottom of the ladders benefits, that'll sort the mess out that this countries in.

Seriously tho, what the fuck do they expect these people who get their benefits cut off to live on?

If I were cynical, not to mention a conspiracy theorist, I'd be wondering why current prisons policy is aiming toward a renewed privatisation policy, and then asking myself whether (effectively) criminalising sanctioned benefits claimants (because be fair, the only way you're going to get money is by breaking the law) was related to that, or whether it was just a BIG coincidence.

 

[Glitter]

Of course not.

Me, I'm ambivalent about "working in a jobcentre". It's not something I could do myself, but I can understand that others might. That said, as with any job, if you've got a minority of cunts, they'll always taint the rest, and the very act of not doing anything about the cunts, of going along with the cuntishness, tarnishes everyone.

One thing I will note is that the DWP seems to have it's admin centres in areas of high unemployment - is this a deliberate move on their part, an attempt to ensure a more pliable workforce?

The point I was originally trying to make is that just because there's a bollocks 'target' for something doesn't mean everyone adheres to it.

I see my job as a way of helping people and I'm not about to turn into a cunt just because someone targets it. If that gets me a bollocking so be it. Fortunately most of my colleagues see it the same way.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The point I was originally trying to make is that just because there's a bollocks 'target' for something doesn't mean everyone adheres to it.

I see my job as a way of helping people and I'm not about to turn into a cunt just because someone targets it. If that gets me a bollocking so be it. Fortunately most of my colleagues see it the same way.

I'm sure that there are people who subvert targets etc. There usually are people "fighting from the inside". The problem is (in my experience, anyway) that what is a "target" at one time often becomes a regulation or rule further down the line, despite people resisting it, which then puts employees such as yourself in an invidious position: Follow the rules or get the sack (after the appropriate disciplinary measures have been observed, of course!).
There used to be a fair amount of discretion involved in the "front-line" at the job centres, now where i it? Legislated away, so that if you exercise any, you're pulled up in front of some chinless twat with an MBA, no experience at the coal-face and no interpersonal skills, and disciplined. Your room to manouvre is being eroded.

 

[ymu]

Reckon that's a bit unfair. You do what you can to put steam on the table.

Totally agree. And you really, really don't want to have decent people avoid those jobs and leave them for the cunts to mop up.

It's a vital role and we need to be kicking up a fuss about policies which can set targets on the number of people 'genuinely' seeking work in an economy which is short at least 6 million jobs.

If they are reducing funding to CAB and debt advisors, then we must insist that benefits advisors take on a part of this role. They should be obliged to inform everyone of what benefits they are entitled to, trained to help people fill in the forms, and earn their bonuses on the basis of an accuracy audit where depriving someone of benefits they are entitled to would be penalised as harshly as allowing overpayment.

It's a rather obvious efficiency saving, no? Perhaps those with some decency working for DWP could start up the Big Society Benefit Advisory Service and run it in their work places, in parallel with their normal jobs and take industrial action if there are sanctions for not imposing sanctions.

 

[ymu]

But you've got to draw the line somewhere, or IMHO the money's not worth the loss of self-respect. FWIW I turned down working for the local jobcentre for moral reasons. Maybe you draw the line somewhere different, and that's for you and your conscience.

Sorry, back to the thread. IME even back in the early 90s there were some sanction-happy claimant advisers, but now the difference is that they seem to have started outnumbering the decent ones.

Para 1: I turned down a job with the job centre for moral reasons

Para 2: The cunts have started outnumbering the decent ones

Spot the connection?

 

[claphamboy]

It's a vital role and we need to be kicking up a fuss about policies which can set targets on the number of people 'genuinely' seeking work in an economy which is short at least 6 million jobs.

At least 6 million jobs?

 

[Looby]

Para 1: I turned down a job with the job centre for moral reasons

Para 2: The cunts have started outnumbering the decent ones

Spot the connection?

Unfortunately, this is exactly what's going to happen because of the cuts.

Committed, experienced staff will be replaced by poorly trained FTA's with no commitment or investment in their jobs.

 

[ymu]

At least 6 million jobs?

Yes.

Precise numbers are hard to find, but here's the sort of stuff I'm using (all from govt statistics unless otherwise specified):

- 2.5 million registered unemployed (1.5 million in receipt of unemployment benefit)
- 1 million self-employed or part-time workers looking for full-time employment
- 9 million economically inactive but a large and unknown proportion are seeking work (disabled, single parents, students)
- statistic abused on The Wright Stuff claiming that a survey estimated 2 million people who were out of work 'admitted' that they weren't looking for work. Their total denominator of people not looking for work was not stated, but it's 9-11 million, by my reckoning.

- 500,000 job vacancies, most of which are effectively 'floating' vacancies; the jobs will go to people already in work and their jobs will replace them in the situations vacant column. With a workforce of 32 million (10 million of whom earn less than £15k ), 500,000 vacancies is pretty close to 'no jobs at all' for all practical purposes.

 

[twentythreedom]

Absolutely sickening. I was sanctioned for being one minute late for signing, but generally I always arrive early, and usually have to wait around because they're running late..

Fuckers. More riots needed.

 

[ymu]

Hmm. It's easy to attack claimants for all sorts of reasons, and one of them is that it's hard to unionise, with no money and no common 'workplace'.

Except that there is a common workplace. You can contact 99.9% of claimants just by leafletting outside a job centre for 2 weeks. Two or three people could cover it easily, whilst also fulfilling their job search requirements.

The National Unemployed Workers Union has been growing. Time to get some branches with 100% membership going?

You could have a Big Society Work Placement Scheme whereby members gained experience in union recruitment, leafleting the newly unemployed at the Job Centre, and trained to help members with benefit claims and debt problems.

 

[ymu]

OK. Right. This isn't going unanswered. Plan for unionisation:

- free membership and benefits
- each branch to have access to one long battery life security chipped netbook and internet dongle with regularly monthly data access contract
- all members asked to work one day a week outside the job centre, recruiting and advising members
- advice primarily practical (form filling, translation) and via online recognised advice services
- members to take it in turns to have custody of the netbook on the proviso that it can be returned early the following morning
- establish relationships with local cafes to hold advice clinics (and boost their takings)

Drew, if this sounds doable, I can bankroll your branch set-up if you can get two more people to make it work. #1 Branch fundraises until they can bankroll #2 Branch. Then they can fundraise for their membership.

We could do with volunteers from within DWP and those with benefits advice, CAB-style or tribunal experience to come along and offer some training days, and maybe also some training-the-trainer days, so that the skills can cascade out without needing one or two people to be available. The national (internet) Forum would pool skills and provide a free resource for everyone. Then the membership can work out what they need. Collective purchasing at the local Cash'n'Carry? Cooking workshops for cheap, good food? Transport co-ops to share the costs of car ownership?

Come on, let's do it. Shouting slogans and smashing windows is fun, but the real fight back has to start now. He wants a Big Society, we'll give him a Big Society, with Big Unions and a Big Voice.

 

[quimcunx]

Back with a vengeance, eh, ymu?

Good to see you.

 

[ymu]

 

[lizzieloo]

Reckon that's a bit unfair. You do what you can to put steam on the table.

Some people are made to take jobs in job centres, happened to a friend of mine.

 

[Obnoxiousness]

I would enjoy working for a booming industry like that.

Not.

 

[lizzieloo]

This is very, very worring for my sister in law as she has learning disabilities but still has to jump through the same hoops.

She'd be a fucking great target.

 

[spawnofsatan]

Its worrying me too, signed on last week for the first time since 93, haven't got a clue how it all works.

 

[ymu]

Drew

Set up a bank account for your new branch of the NUWU.

Stick the details on here.

Keep accounts and publish them here.

You'll need:

- printing
- pasting table and fold-up stools
- long battery-life netbook
- dongle and PAYG on a no-notice monthly contract

And a couple of people who want in.

Get crackin'.

 

[ymu]

For large volume printing, you might find it cheaper to get a local printer than do it yourself. They pass on some of their volume discount on the paper.

 

[tufty79]

I'm in. And got anarchoprinter (kickass political printing with the environmentally-friendly-type-of-green green ink ) friends who i think'd be more than happy to help you out on this one, drew.

 

[Obnoxiousness]

Get in touch with Panorama, I bet they'd love to put an undercover reporter in there.

 

[Fedayn]

"I'm only doing my job"

Something that I've heard from the mouths of various Jobcentre staff as they fuck with peoples lives implementing pisstaking sanctions. Which of course as we all know is the same old rhetoric as used by executioners and Nazi concentration camp guards.

You lot are so highly unionised, and are more than happy to regularly go running to the union and go out on strike when it affects the money in your pocket. Maybe try the same tactics when your bosses start "forcing you" to implement immoral policies ?

Christ i'm tired, been a busy old day, shot a couple of Jews trying to escape, set the dogs on a few gypsies and tortured a few mental health inmates..... Life is tiring as a concentration camp guard.... Oh well, better get on with gassing a few jews and commies..... Bit of luck throw a few cripples in there too......

 

[ymu]

Co-Op bank account, or one with a local credit union, or one of the few remaining mutuals, of course!

If you stick the account details up here (bank account number, sort code) we can start fund-raising by asking people to donate directly into the account.

Each branch, starting with you, can use that account until they have set-up and started fund-raising successfully for themselves. Further branches can apply for funds as and when they have three volunteers signed up. They can be allowed access as and when funds allow, with volunteers encouraged to lend their own equipment to help new branches set up.

Aim: to cover 100% of job centres 100% of the time with a National Forum with Regional sub-forums to coordinate funding, training, advice, transport exchanges, collective purchasing, cooking collectives, and anything that anyone kicks off really.

Could all be coordinated via a blog linked to a forum. Suggested banner: Big Society Benefits Advisory Service (NUWU section). Formal affiliation to NUWU would be good too.

Need some volunteer press officers too. I give good press release, but I'm hopeless at networking. The Armchair Army have a few key contacts at the Virtual Gherkin (for use by the 1st Chairborne Division! ), but we could do with beefing up our, and their, contacts list, if there are any good PR types out there. This needs flooding out to local and national press, especially on slow news days.

Broken of Britain would be another key contact, along with the TUC blog.

 

[ViolentPanda]

At least 6 million jobs?

If you're going to replace multiple poorly-paying p/t jobs with "proper" f/t jobs, that's a minimum.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Unfortunately, this is exactly what's going to happen because of the cuts.

Committed, experienced staff will be replaced by poorly trained FTA's with no commitment or investment in their jobs.

It's already a problem of quite long standing. Even back in my day in the Civil Service, there was the impetus to shed older staff on higher pay grades and increments in favour of younger and less-experienced (but cheaper) staff.
IIRC staff turnover in my old dept nearly doubled between 1990 and 1995 alone. Fuck knows what the Brown cull plus these cuts are going to do (although part of me cynically expects tendering of such jobs to the likes of Crapita and Shitco).

 

[New Deal Scanda]

I agree, professional printing can work out much cheaper than a printer, reams of paper and ink in quantity... and looks more professional too.

 

[goldenecitrone]

At least 6 million jobs?

Oh no. A Dole'a'cause Denier.