Jobcentres tricking people off benefits
- Thread starter minxcariad
- Start date
Some nasty shit.
Steel Icarus
we move
And you could be a grieving relative, tell this story to Duncan Smith and he'd said it's unfortunate, but individual cases etc, and it proves these people shouldn't be given money etc, and his pulse would never go over 85.
Looby
Well-Known Member
I was about to post similar Glitter. I know many trade unionists in the DWP and they will be as appalled as everyone about these practices.
I will say that whilst I have no doubt this is going on and there will always be cunty staff who are only too happy to sanction etc I'm sure they are in the minority.
Many more are under massive pressure from management, being bullied and harassed for not meeting targets and being treated really fucking badly themselves.
I know from my own job that discretion and judgment is being replaced by set processes and you have to justify everything you do that deviates from the standard process.
Please direct your justifiable anger at senior management not individual advisors in jobcentres.
stuff_it
Too skool for cool
Did they make you take the job?
Steel Icarus
we move
Reckon that's a bit unfair. You do what you can to put steam on the table.
Looby
Well-Known Member
That's not really constructive is it?
For a start most people in DWP, HMRC etc started these jobs when the organisations were very different.
I personally chose a public sector job deliberately because I wanted to do something vaguely valuable and was sick of making cash for bosses in the private sector.
"I'm only doing my job"
Something that I've heard from the mouths of various Jobcentre staff as they fuck with peoples lives implementing pisstaking sanctions. Which of course as we all know is the same old rhetoric as used by executioners and Nazi concentration camp guards.
You lot are so highly unionised, and are more than happy to regularly go running to the union and go out on strike when it affects the money in your pocket. Maybe try the same tactics when your bosses start "forcing you" to implement immoral policies ?
Something that I've heard from the mouths of various Jobcentre staff as they fuck with peoples lives implementing pisstaking sanctions. Which of course as we all know is the same old rhetoric as used by executioners and Nazi concentration camp guards.
You lot are so highly unionised, and are more than happy to regularly go running to the union and go out on strike when it affects the money in your pocket. Maybe try the same tactics when your bosses start "forcing you" to implement immoral policies ?
Divisive Cotton
Now I just have my toy soldiers
Comparing DWP workers to Nazi concentration camp guards is a bit harsh isn't it?
Obnoxiousness
>-->))).>
The psychology is comparable. Both were/are probably very nice people, who were/are encouraged to meet targets. The end result of withholding benefits does not compare to being killed, but the comparison reflects the pressure applied from superiors.
But you've got to draw the line somewhere, or IMHO the money's not worth the loss of self-respect. FWIW I turned down working for the local jobcentre for moral reasons. Maybe you draw the line somewhere different, and that's for you and your conscience.
Sorry, back to the thread. IME even back in the early 90s there were some sanction-happy claimant advisers, but now the difference is that they seem to have started outnumbering the decent ones.
Looby
Well-Known Member
Did I fucking say that?
And how the fuck do you know what I do and why? We do take action when we are being asked to do things we believe are wrong but not everyone has the strength of character/confidence to speak out.
I haven't defended this practice, I've merely asked that you target the real villains which is the bosses.
isvicthere?
a.k.a. floppybollocks
This is just sooooo wrong. Tory cunts! 
New Deal Scanda
New Member
Hello everyone. Firstly, would like to apologise for some sites being unavailable yesterday. The announcement of Work Programme contracts TRIPLED the record traffic received so far this year and yeah I didn't get the opportunity to stick the results to the tender up - will have to do it today a day late!
Secondly, its called the "Mandatory Work Activity (MWA)" although called the Mandatory Work Activity Scheme in the regulations (its not an April Fools). Elsewhere, the Work for Your Benefit pilot scheme that was scrapped although the regulations are still active until November 2013 - although can be extended. There are plans through Regs to removed a few clauses, but it still remains "as is" - so I would like to make people aware that its a "trojan horse" awaiting to rear its ugly head. (They could have revoked it all)
Why is this relevant? Well... At current providers under FND are delegated Employment Officer status to certain staff with certain job titles. This means they can send you written notice to attend with sanctions for failure. Jobseeker Directions (JSD) must be written, however, the WfYB scheme was to give providers the ability to create verbal JSDs - thus no actual proof required (i.e. "Called customer to attend work placement. Customer FTA. Customer didn't contact us within 48 hours specifying a reason" => No phone call made. Person didn't contact within 48 hours as s/he had no reason to make a phone call)
Read more here: http://unlawfulsanctions.org.uk/Work-for-Your-Benefit-Workfare-Sanctions.html As for some of the broken links... the site is pending being updated to include examples of real life sanction cases. The author of that article had requested help from Unlawful Sanction users - I am not sure if the whistle blower came from such site or elsewhere... but I hope the site was of some instrumental aspect in helping the article.
The MWA is a punishment. It is designed to stick a "boot up someones backside" if the JCP adviser believes someone is merely complying with JSA conditions but not really trying to look for work (not sure how work ethic experience is going to help that). I will post this further info soon. They quote 10,000 people a year to be placed on it but they also probably said about only that amount being sanctioned to begin with on New Deal. It is very close to accusing someone of being a benefit cheat.
Just to end saying the Government is trying for a "Training Wage Bill" which bypasses the NMW - if it makes it to Royal Assent its likely to begin first half of 2012. This allows employers to pay low wages, major deductions or not paying staff at all. How? Pay disputes are civil (you have to sue if there is an issue). The only exception is if an employer breaks the law by not paying NMW on average (criminal act)... when this doesn't apply because of an exception; the employee on a training wage cannot contact HMRC to report the employer. So, you can expect many dirty sanction tricks to force people into very low paid work if the Training Wage Bill makes it. As we know these "employment programmes" mean the provider is your "employer" (under Social Security law anyway)... and refusal or losing a "job" (yes you guessed it) will rise up to 3 years of sanctions (3 month, 6 month, 3 years).
Secondly, its called the "Mandatory Work Activity (MWA)" although called the Mandatory Work Activity Scheme in the regulations (its not an April Fools). Elsewhere, the Work for Your Benefit pilot scheme that was scrapped although the regulations are still active until November 2013 - although can be extended. There are plans through Regs to removed a few clauses, but it still remains "as is" - so I would like to make people aware that its a "trojan horse" awaiting to rear its ugly head. (They could have revoked it all)
Why is this relevant? Well... At current providers under FND are delegated Employment Officer status to certain staff with certain job titles. This means they can send you written notice to attend with sanctions for failure. Jobseeker Directions (JSD) must be written, however, the WfYB scheme was to give providers the ability to create verbal JSDs - thus no actual proof required (i.e. "Called customer to attend work placement. Customer FTA. Customer didn't contact us within 48 hours specifying a reason" => No phone call made. Person didn't contact within 48 hours as s/he had no reason to make a phone call)
Read more here: http://unlawfulsanctions.org.uk/Work-for-Your-Benefit-Workfare-Sanctions.html As for some of the broken links... the site is pending being updated to include examples of real life sanction cases. The author of that article had requested help from Unlawful Sanction users - I am not sure if the whistle blower came from such site or elsewhere... but I hope the site was of some instrumental aspect in helping the article.
The MWA is a punishment. It is designed to stick a "boot up someones backside" if the JCP adviser believes someone is merely complying with JSA conditions but not really trying to look for work (not sure how work ethic experience is going to help that). I will post this further info soon. They quote 10,000 people a year to be placed on it but they also probably said about only that amount being sanctioned to begin with on New Deal. It is very close to accusing someone of being a benefit cheat.
Just to end saying the Government is trying for a "Training Wage Bill" which bypasses the NMW - if it makes it to Royal Assent its likely to begin first half of 2012. This allows employers to pay low wages, major deductions or not paying staff at all. How? Pay disputes are civil (you have to sue if there is an issue). The only exception is if an employer breaks the law by not paying NMW on average (criminal act)... when this doesn't apply because of an exception; the employee on a training wage cannot contact HMRC to report the employer. So, you can expect many dirty sanction tricks to force people into very low paid work if the Training Wage Bill makes it. As we know these "employment programmes" mean the provider is your "employer" (under Social Security law anyway)... and refusal or losing a "job" (yes you guessed it) will rise up to 3 years of sanctions (3 month, 6 month, 3 years).
_angel_
.
This is just sooooo wrong. Tory cunts!
vote labour
Looby
Well-Known Member
Not really, I don't work there.
New Deal Scanda
New Member
Just to Add, although the Jobseekers Act 1995 was Tory... Labour has been building up the sanctions ever since.
They created New Deal: With the associated sanctions for refusal, failure and even for not "actively participating" (which is far fetching)
They created FND: Delegating powers for providers to raise sanction doubts
They created Regs to sanction people who are late
They created the pressures for DWP/JCP to have targets to sanction to save money on the welfare bill
They created Work for Your Benefit (workfare) - I hate the tories, but Labour would have done the pilots... I wont say too much about the tories scrapping the scheme as I know they will bring it back at some point.
I could go on... lol
They created New Deal: With the associated sanctions for refusal, failure and even for not "actively participating" (which is far fetching)
They created FND: Delegating powers for providers to raise sanction doubts
They created Regs to sanction people who are late
They created the pressures for DWP/JCP to have targets to sanction to save money on the welfare bill
They created Work for Your Benefit (workfare) - I hate the tories, but Labour would have done the pilots... I wont say too much about the tories scrapping the scheme as I know they will bring it back at some point.
I could go on... lol
Obnoxiousness
>-->))).>
Who is really responsible and where is their office?
Steel Icarus
we move
How do you suppose there are going to be "decent" ones at all if they take the same lofty moral stance you did?
Look, they're not the enemy. The enemy is the cunts in charge of the ideology, the drivers of it. And look! We're arguing amongst ourselves. Colin is a swan. Colin is black. All swans are black. All Colins are swans. Swans are just following orders.
Obnoxiousness
>-->))).>
Again, who is responsible and where is their office?
Collaborators and enablers have nothing to be ashamed of?
IMHO fair play to those who genuinely want to change the system from within, or reduce the worst bits of it. IMHO it's too easy to persuade yourself that trying to preserve a critical mass of decent people is the reason that you continue to work where you do, doing what you do, and not take a stand as often as you maybe believe that you should.
Glitter
Goddess of rock!
And that's relevant how?
claphamboy
The wheels on the bus go round and round....
What a fucking disgrace.
I feel sorry for anyone that has suffered as a result of this, it saddens me reading the posts here esp. from RaverDrew as he's been shafted twice, and I remember posting 'in support' when he posted about the case just before Christmas.
I think you mean Labour cunts.
As the report linked in the OP, and post 51 from New Deal Scanda, explains this was introduced by the last government.
I feel sorry for anyone that has suffered as a result of this, it saddens me reading the posts here esp. from RaverDrew as he's been shafted twice, and I remember posting 'in support' when he posted about the case just before Christmas.
This is just sooooo wrong. Tory cunts!
I think you mean Labour cunts.
As the report linked in the OP, and post 51 from New Deal Scanda, explains this was introduced by the last government.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Of course not.
Me, I'm ambivalent about "working in a jobcentre". It's not something I could do myself, but I can understand that others might. That said, as with any job, if you've got a minority of cunts, they'll always taint the rest, and the very act of not doing anything about the cunts, of going along with the cuntishness, tarnishes everyone.
One thing I will note is that the DWP seems to have it's admin centres in areas of high unemployment - is this a deliberate move on their part, an attempt to ensure a more pliable workforce?
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