Jihadi Jack wants to come back because he misses Dr Who

[newbie]

TBH after the shit, Daesh pulled, I'm surprised any were taken as a prisoner.

It's to the credit of the victors that these people are being held in conditions where they have access to journalists and are not alleging bad treatment. That simple fact goes against pretty much everything we're told about behaviour in that neck of the woods. So I get what you're saying but would ask you to recognise that that's projection not this reality.

It's been reported that foreign governments have been requested to take their nationals away, and that Iraqi fighters are being sent over the border. Perhaps that's for purely practical reasons or perhaps there's a widespread desire to only house Syrian nationals in their prisons, I don't know, but my point is they* should have first dibs. In any case the current volatile situation should be allowed to die down before anything happens. Unless there's urgency because the security of the camp is doubtful. Leaving the adults to rot for a bit won't do much harm. There needs to be an internationally agreed response to dealing with the children involved.

* they- deliberately ambiguous word, it could mean the PKK, or perhaps 'the Kurds', or Assad or whatever is left of non-miltarised civil society, or it could mean the American or Russian paymasters.

 

[Spymaster]

... the lies you tell for your mates ...

You really should drop this. There are far too many posters who know that you're lying through your teeth about it. It's a topic that you're often ridiculed about in certain circles.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Same as other thread then. IF he's brought back, investigate, charge etc. If there's the infrastructure and will to charge him over there, do that.

I still don't agree with removing citizenship for people born here.

Yep this.

 

[Spymaster]

Couple of people have said RCR. What is RCR?

Race Card Rita.

 

[butchersapron]

Of course, the silence on the 400 who have come back already is also more racism.

 

[danny la rouge]

Race Card Rita.

Is this a common expression?
I could only come up with Royal College of Radiologists.

 

[Pickman's model]

Let him come back and make him watch Dr who in his cell in belmarsh

 

[Pickman's model]

Is this a common expression?
I could only come up with Royal College of Radiologists.

It's also use in textspeak for arsier

 

[Treacle Toes]

You really should drop this. There are far too many posters who know that you're lying through your teeth about it. It's a topic that you're often ridiculed about in certain circles.

Oooohhh nice try. Given some of whom you associate yourself with...

 

[klang]

Is this a common expression?

common or not, it's horrible.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeh that's how you get the number of posts you want, start an argument, people pile in, posts accrue, before you know it you can say there's a fuck ton of posts here, people emote loads on this subject.

 

[Pickman's model]

common or not, it's horrible.

Def non-u

 

[danny la rouge]

common or not, it's horrible.

It’s not the sort of thing you’d catch me saying. I missed its use on the other thread, though, so don’t really want to restoke it on this one.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I would be happier seeing this guy's citizenship revoked, if legally possible, because his crimes seem a lot worst.

If it can't, and he somehow manages to get back, we will have to deal him, but as in the other case, I see no reason for the government to go out of their way to assist him.

 

[Red Cat]

Racism and misogyny can be very subtle and barely conscious, surely? Constantly recreated. That's not the same as saying that someone is A RACIST like it's a concrete form you either are or you're not. I'm always thinking about these processes, my rational conscious politics don't make me immune.

 

[Pickman's model]

Racism and misogyny can be very subtle and barely conscious, surely? Constantly recreated. That's not the same as saying that someone is A RACIST like it's a concrete form you either are or you're not. I'm always thinking about these processes, my rational conscious politics don't make me immune.

I'm sure people who are consciously racist think their views are rational. How would you persuade them of the rightness of your rationality and the wrongness of theirs?

 

[Athos]

Racism and misogyny can be very subtle and barely conscious, surely? Constantly recreated. That's not the same as saying that someone is A RACIST like it's a concrete form you either are or you're not. I'm always thinking about these processes, my rational conscious politics don't make me immune.

This thread is no place for thoughtful nuance!

 

[Spymaster]

... his crimes seem a lot worst.

I'm not sure that's true. Letts denies having been part of ISIS and reckons they held him captive and he escaped. Begum, by contrast, openly and unremorsefully says that she was "in ISIS" and has sought to defend their actions. Other statements made by Letts put him in my "don't give a fuck" pile and any crimes that he may have committed were committed in Iraq or Syria. That's where he should be tried.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I would be happier seeing this guy's citizenship revoked, if legally possible, because his crimes seem a lot worst.

If it can't, and he somehow manages to get back, we will have to deal him, but as in the other case, I see no reason for the government to go out of their way to assist him.

He appears to claim that his crimes are not worse. No idea what evidence they have to the contrary. Either way, membership of IS is a minimum. His defence on that - he has said 'I just wanted to live under Sharia law' - has already failed in court with the woman who came back voluntarily, who was jailed for six years. I would think he would face the maximum 10 years for that offence in the absence of mitigating circumstances. And then, as with Begum, he has to be dealt with from there.

I don't agree with revoking citizenship (although this one at least appears to have known that he was a dual national), but at the same time I don't see any duty on the UK govt to make special efforts to get him back. Pretty much the same as Begum.

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Let him come back and make him watch Dr who in his cell in belmarsh

Which season and which Dr Who?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Letts denies having been part of ISIS and reckons they held him captive and he escaped.

He might claim that, but by his own admission he moved to IS territory so that he could live under Sharia law. I would say that that makes him a member of IS. That he was subsequently treated badly by IS (if that is true) is really neither here nor there.

 

[Pickman's model]

Which season and which Dr Who?

All of them

 

[Dogsauce]

Which season and which Dr Who?

The feature length one-off they made with one of the McGanns a couple of decades ago, on repeat. That would be punishment enough.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I'm not sure that's true. Letts denies having been part of ISIS and reckons they held him captive and he escaped. Begum, by contrast, openly and unremorsefully says that she was "in ISIS" and has sought to defend their actions. Other statements made by Letts put im in my "don't give a fuck" pile and any crimes that he may have committed were committed in Iraq or Syria. That's where he should be tried.

I included the word 'seem' is my post, because the article linked in the OP says he's ''suspected of joining Isis'. His parents claim he's the victim of torture at the hands of his captors, which I read as being his current captors, not IS.

He travelled to IS territory, now why would he do that?

I can't see a denial from him, I see his parents deny he went to join IS, but they would considering they are awaiting trial accused of funding terrorism, by sending him money.

 

[Dogsauce]

He might claim that, but by his own admission he moved to IS territory so that he could live under Sharia law. I would say that that makes him a member of IS. That he was subsequently treated badly by IS (if that is true) is really neither here nor there.

I’m not sure whether his apparent contrition is a good or bad thing, it could be looked at quite cynically. At least with Begum you kind of know she’s being truthful because there’s nothing to gain from the idiotic statements she’s made, just digging more of a hole.

 

[Spymaster]

He might claim that, but by his own admission he moved to IS territory so that he could live under Sharia law. I would say that that makes him a member of IS. That he was subsequently treated badly by IS (if that is true) is really neither here nor there.

I'm happy with that. Legally though, he's playing a different game. He's saying "I wasn't in ISIS, I disagree with ISIS and whilst I supported the Bataclan attack at the time I now think it was wrong". Begum is saying "I was in ISIS and still support a lot of what they did. They don't deserve to win now so I want to return to the UK".

Fuck them both, but I'm not sure if one of them is more or less culpable than the other.

 

[Dogsauce]

FWIW there were cases of people going out to Syria in the early days of the revolution to undertake humanitarian work that then ended up being drawn into ISIS and radicalised. At the beginning there wasn’t really an apparent Islamist element to the conflict. It’s not hard to understand that pulling dead kids out of rubble etc. is likely to produce the anger and resentment that makes the path to radicalisation easier.

Doesn’t apply to the current cases under discussion as they both made their journeys after the horrors of ISIS were common knowledge.

 

[Spymaster]

I included the word 'seem' is my post, because the article linked in the OP says he's ''suspected of joining Isis'. His parents claim he's the victim of torture at the hands of his captors, which I read as being his current captors, not IS.

He travelled to IS territory, now why would he do that?

I can't see a denial from him, I see his parents deny he went to join IS, but they would considering they are awaiting trial accused of funding terrorism, by sending him money.

I agree with your overall position but again, legally he's running a different line, and is in a different boat, to Begum. There's not much info in the article linked in the OP but he also claims to have been tortured by IS and imprisoned by them before escaping and being captured and imprisoned again, but this time by his current captors.

 

[gosub]

It's interesting how the article seems much more sympathetic to Jack.

Jack is white, of course.

Jack has also had a sustained campaign this end (by his parents) to bring him home. They've been campaigning for years.

If you watch the interview with him and compare it with her's colour doesn't come into it. He comes across as far more grounded and personable

 

[likesfish]

I'm happy with that. Legally though, he's playing a different game. He's saying "I wasn't in ISIS, I disagree with ISIS and whilst I supported the Bataclan attack at the time I now think it was wrong". Begum is saying "I was in ISIS and still support a lot of what they did. They don't deserve to win now so I want to return to the UK".

Fuck them both, but I'm not sure if of them is more or less culpable than the other.

pay per view ex jihadi porn you know murdoch would fund it