Jews stoned in East End (again)

[GarfieldLeChat]

More pedantry and semantics here..

you daft politico.

all incidents are about the fine detail and most certainly about the implication of the words used.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Some people on here seem to have missed this bit of the article:

"youths shouted at the tourists, 'if you go any further you'll die.'"

That doesn't sound like youthful hi-jinks to me.

But why don't you all wait until it's been investigated properly, rather than arguing about things you don't have the facts to support?

sound like gangs on most estates or areas attempting to stop otusiders coming into their territory.

 

[Idris2002]

They could easily have been motivated by both anti-semitism and a hooligans' desire to control 'their' turf.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I'm afraid your pedantry and semanitics seem to be an attempt to obscure what has happened. Would you be arguing in this manner if it were another ethnic group Garfield? Somehow I doubt it. Starting your pedantic ramble by inviting me to 'Fuck off' is something I find offensive.

in what way am i atempt to obsure what happen use specific qutoes to justify this statement no where have i made apologies for the action or deny they happend so a full quotes or a retration please.

and you can fuck off love you are clearly a muppet.

 

[Belushi]

Nasty, vicious attack but I dont see any evidence yet that it was motivated by anti-semitism.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

They could easily have been motivated by both anti-semitism and a hooligans' desire to control 'their' turf.

it could be.

however that's wild speculation without any supporting facts.

unless they was pakis they hate us is a standard and accepted defence line.

 

[gosub]

I see two separate racism issues at work here.

Firstly whether this group of people were attacked because of the nature of their walk and the very specific date.
Secondly the presumptions being made about the identity of the attackers.

Personally I'm enquiring into the first, and until someone is actually able to show that the very regular Jack the Ripper walks are similarly targeted, it seems to me that the presumption should be that this was indeed an attack motivated by the very specific nature of the event.


For those that don't know the area, this map outlines the JtR walks. Underwood Road, where the attack took place is just at the left end of the boxed word 'Map' at the top right.

Had stones chucked at me my boat about 1 1/4miles NE from there in past, (edge of Victoria Park) no racial or religous aspect to that. WHat the little fuckers didn't realize was that I was being hunted by a police helicopter at the time, when it came back from refuel actually did some proper work.

Kids thoroughout the country (mainly in Cities mainly) throw stones at boats though

 

[Mallard]

in what way am i atempt to obsure what happen use specific qutoes to justify this statement no where have i made apologies for the action or deny they happend so a full quotes or a retration please.

The issue as you well know. Re-read the thread. Where did I mention 'apologies'? Re-read or better still, turn off computer and calm down.

and you can fuck off love you are clearly a muppet.

Wow! You're very fond of that word Garfield and seem keen to introduce another 'ism' in to your cannon.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

The issue as you well know. Re-read the thread. Where did I mention 'apologies'? Re-read or better still, turn off computer and calm down.

no love that's not how it works you made an accusation that i was being an apologist so now you need to make sure that is verified when being called on it quote up the apologist quotes and make damn sure you're quick about it.

Or you'll look like many a fool who has come on here trying to throw their wieght around slurring posters when they don't agree with them and alledgeing all manner of things...

If i were asking if you were continuing to fuck children would you find that acceptable?

Wow! You're very fond of that word Garfield and seem keen to introduce another 'ism' in to your cannon.

oh do go on with your snide infferences you nasty piece of work....

then go fuck yourself.

 

[Mallard]

no love that's not how it works you made an accusation that i was being an apologist so now you need to make sure that is verified when being called on it quote up the apologist quotes and make damn sure you're quick about it.

Where did I accuse you of being an apologist? Link please!

This reads like a threat to me Garfield. Rather unpleasant.

oh do go on with your snide infferences you nasty piece of work....

then go fuck yourself.

Lovely

 

[KeyboardJockey]

If this country ever gets a written constitution, I hope this is specifially prohibited in it.

The main stumbling block to this is the fact that the Church of England is the established church. At present there is nothing to stop someone setting up a 'Church and State' party.

If we were to have a written constitution then it would have to be coupled with disestablishment of the C of E.

If it is considered advantageous to have some representatives of religous groupings in parliament (and I used to be an antidisestablishmentarianist becuase I belive that such groups should have 'some' voice but not a controlling voice) then why not have one member of the upper house from each religion / religious denomination that has the support of a certain number of adherents. That way you would get Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, etc representation but you would do away with the imbalance of having huge numbers of bishops in the upper house.

 

[poster342002]

The main stumbling block to this is the fact that the Church of England is the established church. At present there is nothing to stop someone setting up a 'Church and State' party.

If we were to have a written constitution then it would have to be coupled with disestablishment of the C of E.

If it is considered advantageous to have some representatives of religous groupings in parliament (and I used to be an antidisestablishmentarianist becuase I belive that such groups should have 'some' voice but not a controlling voice) then why not have one member of the upper house from each religion / religious denomination that has the support of a certain number of adherents. That way you would get Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, etc representation but you would do away with the imbalance of having huge numbers of bishops in the upper house.

I really don't know about that. I'd rather go for secularising parliament entirely. A bit like I favour the total aboliton of the blasphemy laws, rather than their extension to other groups.

We're going off-topic here, though.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

I really don't know about that. I'd rather go for secularising parliament entirely. A bit like I favour the total aboliton of the blasphemy laws, rather than their extension to other groups.

Agree with doing away with the blasphemy laws but disagree with totally securalising parliament.

We're going off-topic here, though.

Agreed I'll shut my cake hole on this matter.


BTW FWIW I've seen and experienced some stone throwing by youths in Stamford Hill. Aimed at the Chassidim who live there. Possibly an antisemitic basis but equally could be just youths mischiefmaking.

So these attacks can be antisemitic but they can also be an element of having a go at those who are 'different' without an ideological religious / racial motive for the attack.

The timing of this attack is very very worrying and the situation should be monitored properly.

I think this sort of thing needs to be dealt with early on before it gets out of hand.

 

[Andy the Don]

incidently what's your agenda here?

Kama roa, efshar livloa?

How much evil can we swallow?

why not try these other delightful accompanments too...

"A strong people makes peace" "No Arabs, no terror" and "Long live the king Messiah."

got your number...

Sorry Garf, but WTF, because the poster may or may not be Jewish you give them a mouthfull & then automatically tag them as raving right wing Zionists..

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Where did I accuse you of being an apologist? Link please!

This reads like a threat to me Garfield. Rather unpleasant.



Lovely

I'm afraid your pedantry and semanitics seem to be an attempt to obscure what has happened. Would you be arguing in this manner if it were another ethnic group Garfield? Somehow I doubt it. Starting your pedantic ramble by inviting me to 'Fuck off' is something I find offensive.

seems like a snide infference there and yes it's a threat love, a threat that you are are on a hiding to no where goign down this rotue, whilst outting yourself as a snide wanker and a illogical emotional irrational muppet...

oops you've already done that with your wriggling now then little miss/mr obfiscation your direct quotes if you please.

 

[poster342002]

So these attacks can be antisemitic but they can also be an element of having a go at those who are 'different' without an ideological religious / racial motive for the attack.

The timing of this attack is very very worrying and the situation should be monitored properly.

I think this sort of thing needs to be dealt with early on before it gets out of hand.

Yes, it could just a be symptomatic of the current genral yobbish youth behaviour we're seeing so much of nowadays. It may also have a nasty racist undertone as well. Either way, I think Londoners of all stripes are growing heartily sick of it.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Sorry Garf, but WTF, because the poster may or may not be Jewish you give them a mouthfull & then automatically tag them as raving right wing Zionists..

do you know what the tag line means and where it's from?

what it reffers to?

please don't be naive to assume that they have that under their tagline by conicdence that they agree with the seniment and thought it would be kooky and ethinic to use another language, if it said white power what would you deduce from that then?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Yes, it could just a be symptomatic of the current genral yobbish youth behaviour we're seeing so much of nowadays. It may also have a nasty racist undertone as well. Either way, I think Londoners of all stripes are growing heartily sick of it.

Agreed. Even though I'm a Laura Norder poster on here I think that some form of diversion / mediation / interfaith initiative is needed to tackle the root causes of this behaviour in Tower Hamlets. Just nailing them up will not nail any sense into them.

 

[Andy the Don]

do you know what the tag line means and where it's from?

what it reffers to?

please don't be naive to assume that they have that under their tagline by conicdence that they agree with the seniment and thought it would be kooky and ethinic to use another language, if it said white power what would you deduce from that then?

Actually goggled it, came up with a lyric of a Israeli/Palestinian rap song written by Israeli "man of letters" David Grossman. What makes you think that you can hang the tag of right wing Zionist on the poster..??

 

[Mallard]

seems like a snide infference there and yes it's a threat love, a threat that you are are on a hiding to no where goign down this rotue, whilst outting yourself as a snide wanker and a illogical emotional irrational muppet...

oops you've already done that with your wriggling now then little miss/mr obfiscation your direct quotes if you please.

I asked for a link Garfield where is it?

I am neither wriggling or resorting to comedy foulmouthed abuse. 'Love', 'emotional illogical' ....single man?

 

[invisibleplanet]

do you know what the tag line means and where it's from?

what it reffers to?

please don't be naive to assume that they have that under their tagline by conicdence that they agree with the seniment and thought it would be kooky and ethinic to use another language, if it said white power what would you deduce from that then?

What's Melinda's tagline got to do with this thread?

 

[KeyboardJockey]

OK I'm going to try to be the voice of reason here.

Antisemitism and Islamophobia do exist. The question is how do you tackle it.

The large majority of christian based antisemitism at least in Britain seems to have reduced but we do have a worrying current of anti semitism in the muslim community that is fed by various extremists and is not being tackled by the powers that be and the furore over the MCB not endorsing HMD has exacerbated this problem.

The problem of antisemitism in TH isn't a stand alone problem it is linked to poverty in the area, an unwillingness on the part of some Bangladeshi community leaders to take the problem seriously, the effect of Galloways mob stirring up shit, the Israel / Palestine problems acting as a lightning rod for muslim antisemitism - in the wider world and also linked locally to Galloway's mob using the issue to garner votes, .

There is no one solution to the matter it requires a multitude of solutions.

If there was one way I would start it would be by isolating the 'community leaders' who are IMO part of the problem (the leaders want to keep their power therefore they want the population to be obedient and uninformed) and tackle the poverty that sits side by side with Yuppie opulence and greed in the area.

I think that if regeneration in East London had been done more sensitively and taking into account the views of local communities we wouldn't be facing such division and hatred.

IMO the LDDC did more damage to the human fabric of East London than the bloody Luftwaffe did.

 

[Melinda]

incidently what's your agenda here?

Kama roa, efshar livloa?

How much evil can we swallow?

why not try these other delightful accompanments too...

"A strong people makes peace" "No Arabs, no terror" and "Long live the king Messiah."

got your number...

Sorry Garf, but WTF, because the poster may or may not be Jewish you give them a mouthfull & then automatically tag them as raving right wing Zionists..

do you know what the tag line means and where it's from?

what it reffers to?

please don't be naive to assume that they have that under their tagline by conicdence that they agree with the seniment and thought it would be kooky and ethinic to use another language, if it said white power what would you deduce from that then?

You've got my number have you? Should I hand in my Urban Membership now then?

Will you stop posturing about music you know nothing about?
Probably not, but you do need telling before you choke on your own bile.

'Kama roa, efshar livloa' does indeed mean 'how much evil can we swallow.'

Its from a song written by David Grossman- the song is almost entirely compiled from lots of car bumber stickers he saw as he drove round in Israel.
That's why it is called Shirat Hasticker! The Sticker Song! The song is performed by a band I love called Hadag Nachash.

The innovation is that despite being made up of pithy vignettes written by a myriad of groups from across the political, cultural and religious specutum -
it still works seamlessly as a song, Grossman has arranged them to make lyrics and a chorus.

As well as right leaning slogans the song also has lines like:

"We cant spare kids for unnecessary wars"

"Smog test in Yarka"

"No fear the messiah is here"

"Yesha is here"

"Death to Zealots"

Just so you know for the future, both Grossman and Hadag Nachash are left-leaning in their politics.

If you had simply asked me about it- I would have explained, instead you stomped about telling me my business.

"You've got my number?" Fool!

 

[invisibleplanet]

Thank you, Melinda, for explaining

In other news - urban75 posters in hebrew tagline shocker!

 

[Mallard]

OK I'm going to try to be the voice of reason here.

Antisemitism and Islamophobia do exist. The question is how do you tackle it.

The large majority of christian based antisemitism at least in Britain seems to have reduced but we do have a worrying current of anti semitism in the muslim community that is fed by various extremists and is not being tackled by the powers that be and the furore over the MCB not endorsing HMD has exacerbated this problem.

The problem of antisemitism in TH isn't a stand alone problem it is linked to poverty in the area, an unwillingness on the part of some Bangladeshi community leaders to take the problem seriously, the effect of Galloways mob stirring up shit, the Israel / Palestine problems acting as a lightning rod for muslim antisemitism - in the wider world and also linked locally to Galloway's mob using the issue to garner votes, .

There is no one solution to the matter it requires a multitude of solutions.

If there was one way I would start it would be by isolating the 'community leaders' who are IMO part of the problem (the leaders want to keep their power therefore they want the population to be obedient and uninformed) and tackle the poverty that sits side by side with Yuppie opulence and greed in the area.

Spot on and probably the best way to end the thread imo.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You've got my number have you? Should I hand in my Urban Membership now then?

Will you stop posturing about music you know nothing about?
Probably not, but you do need telling before you choke on your own bile.



Its from a song written by David Grossman- the song is almost entirely compiled from lots of car bumber stickers he saw as he drove round in Israel.
That's why it is called Shirat Hasticker! The Sticker Song! The song is performed by a band I love called Hadag Nachash.

The innovation is that despite being made up of pithy vignettes written by a myriad of groups from across the political, cultural and religious specutum -
it still works seamlessly as a song, Grossman has arranged them to make lyrics and a chorus.

As well as right leaning slogans the song also has lines like:



Just so you know for the future, both Grossman and Hadag Nachash are left-leaning in their politics.

If you had simply asked me about it- I would have explained, instead you stomped about telling me my business.

"You've got my number?" Fool!

and what does that bummer sticker support fool...

you haven't merely quoted a song lyric you have quoted a slogan used by the right wing zionist movement.

you tar yourself with the ignorance of your subject matter of course it's all about the music right.

bought any screwdriver recently for their musical abilities...

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Spot on and probably the best way to end the thread imo.

Thanks.

I'm going to start another thread to discuss some of the other issues that have come up from this thread such as tackling antisemitism and interfaith stuff and C of E disestablishment. Although some posts have been a bit 'bunfight-y' there has been some interesting stuff come up elsewhere.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Actually goggled it, came up with a lyric of a Israeli/Palestinian rap song written by Israeli "man of letters" David Grossman. What makes you think that you can hang the tag of right wing Zionist on the poster..??

because the bumper sticker itself is used by a rightwing zionist group...

you know the whole harry wearing anzi uniform not actually making hima nazi but making him an idiot for doing it and offending...

so either the poster knows the connections or they don't and are being naive.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

Thank you, Melinda, for explaining

In other news - urban75 posters in hebrew tagline shocker!

Hmmmmm I wonder if U75 supports non Latin fonts.

 

[nino_savatte]

The large majority of christian based antisemitism at least in Britain seems to have reduced

Imo, the Rapture is a form of anti-semitism and those who believe in it think that they're using the Jews to facilitate the "second coming" of their 'Lord'.