Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[MickiQ]

I'd imagine the 'ground game' was proper hamstrung in leave seats by adopting the disastrous second reff position, I bet those conversations were excruciating.

Well, AV very much looked like a way to empower the Lib Dems a bit more at the same time as the lib dems were happily nodding through massive assaults on the living standards of the poorest in society (in exchange for a tax on plastic bags) so you can hardly be suprised that it got minimal support even from people usually receptive to talk of electoral reform. Also the Cons had promised not to oppose it, which turned out to be a lie, would you credit such a thing etc.

Of course the LibDems were pushing a system that they thought would most favour them, they are politicians when all is said and done. However imperfect it might have been it would have been a bit better than the current winner takes all setup.
And the great thing about a little reform is it opens the door to a little more and a little more after that. The argument that we're not getting everything we want so we'll turn down something and stick with nothing is self-defeating.
I can understand why people might want to 'Stick It to Clegg' the man was insufferably smug. But that little moment of sticking it to the man has contributed to keeping the Tories in power for another generation at least.
Especially given the complete and probably irreversable collapse of the Labour vote in Scotland once their strongest heartland has put yet another obstacle in their path that FPTP accentuates.

 

[belboid]

Actually AV doesn’t tend to work out ‘fairer’. It does give a third (but not a fourth or fifth) placed party slightly better chance of a seat, but research at the time indicated it gave the leading party an even larger number of seats.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

There have been a few general elections where one party (labour in 1951, tories in february 1974) got more votes but lost the election.

I agree that FPTP is shit in some ways, but I'm still not convinced that the alternatives aren't equally or more shit in other ways.

And if there had been a 'party list' type of system, I can't help thinking that the party machine would have got rid of jeremy corbyn and other 'awkward' labour MP's some time ago...

 

[killer b]

And if there had been a 'party list' type of system, I can't help thinking that the party machine would have got rid of jeremy corbyn and other 'awkward' labour MP's some time ago...

under a proportional system, the kind of big tent political parties that resulted in Jeremy Corbyn and Tony Blair sharing a political platform aren't necessary. Corbyn would be in some kind of Podemos type minor hard left party rather than the main SD/Liberal monolith.

 

[redsquirrel]

Of course AV has been particularly effective at stopping (centre)-right governments in Australia.

 

[Dom Traynor]

AV was definitely worse than FPTP and the PR supporters who campaigned for it in the referendum showed how distant they were from the public on this not to mention naive.

I think that a mixture of Irish style STV and MMP in England is you set any thresholds low enough could help create a space for a more radical left party to do ok, but looking at Scotland and Italy would demonstrate its not guaranteed by any means...

 

[teqniq]

Whither now? Labour under Starmer is a fucking very bad joke:

 

[billy_bob]

Apparently getting rid of Corbyn is the only thing Starmer's willing to stick his neck out and look resolute about. Maybe it'll form the basis of the next GE campaign slogan.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Apparently getting rid of Corbyn is the only thing Starmer's willing to stick his neck out and look resolute about.

There was also 'geronimo the alpaca must die'

 

[PR1Berske]

I wonder if page 1,000 will be the confirmation of the Islington byelection.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Pidcock has gone.

 

[Supine]

Whither now? Labour under Starmer is a fucking very bad joke:

Passive aggressive isn’t a great look. Left fighting left yet again when the tories are on the ropes.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Pidcock has gone.

This leadership is devoid of ideas, lacking vision. I can’t and won’t negotiate with these people anymore. The summit of their ideas are just small tweaks to the status quo. They challenge virtually nothing, but are noticeably determined when it comes to rule changes that alienate the left. They have demoralised thousands of people who were awakened to politics for the first in their life. I am sure, this is part of their larger strategy.

I mean... yes?

 

[Shechemite]

Comes across a bit mad

 

[killer b]

I mean... yes?

the shadow chancellor openly said it was a great thing left wing people were leaving the party the other day. It's no great secret

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Left fighting left yet again

does sir kieth count as 'left' though? centrist dad at best, alternative conservative party at worst.

in other news, momentum have opened membership to people who are not in the labour party

as someone asked (either on this or the starmer thread) is there any point any more?

give up? join / rejoin labour? (or both)

join one of the new tiny left parties?

meh

 

[Supine]

does sir kieth count as 'left' though? centrist dad at best, alternative conservative party at worst.

in other news, momentum have opened membership to people who are not in the labour party

as someone asked (either on this or the starmer thread) is there any point any more?

give up? join / rejoin labour? (or both)

join one of the new tiny left parties?

meh

I’d engage more if you could say his name rather than use a childish nickname.

Anti Starmer sentiment appears to be about not liking somebody because of his name or his suit. Why not wait until policies are rolled out before doing the tories work for them?

 

[danny la rouge]

Anti Starmer sentiment appears to be about not liking somebody because of his name or his suit.

I don’t like him because he’s a knight and a cop.

 

[Pickman's model]

I’d engage more if you could say his name rather than use a childish nickname.

Anti Starmer sentiment appears to be about not liking somebody because of his name or his suit. Why not wait until policies are rolled out before doing the tories work for them?

Its more in my case because sir keithly shammer seems to want to do what Boris Johnson does, only more efficiently

 

[Pickman's model]

I don’t like him because he’s a knight and a cop.

And an mp and privy councillor

 

[Supine]

I don’t like him because he’s a knight and a cop.

Because he achieved something from ability and he isnt a cop. Seems like inverse snobbery to me. Sorry.

 

[two sheds]

we have waited a while for some policies tbf

 

[killer b]

I’d engage more if you could say his name rather than use a childish nickname.

you must treat the honourable leader of her majesty's opposition with the respect his office deserves!

 

[Pickman's model]

you must treat the honourable leader of her majesty's opposition with the respect his office deserves!

If only the leader of the opposition would do the same

 

[Pickman's model]

we have waited a while for some policies tbf

They're in the post apparently

 

[Pickman's model]

Because he achieved something from ability and he isnt a cop. Seems like inverse snobbery to me. Sorry.

Oh right so people who haven't made something of their lives are themselves to blame

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I’d engage more if you could say his name rather than use a childish nickname.

Anti Starmer sentiment appears to be about not liking somebody because of his name or his suit. Why not wait until policies are rolled out before doing the tories work for them?

Would you really have engaged more if they'd used his full official name?

 

[Pickman's model]

I’d engage more if you could say his name rather than use a childish nickname.

Anti Starmer sentiment appears to be about not liking somebody because of his name or his suit. Why not wait until policies are rolled out before doing the tories work for them?

If people used his middle name he'd be done for, it'd be Rodney you plonker left right and centre

 

[Supine]

Would you really have engaged more if they'd used his full official name?

Yes. I hate people saying Boris and I hate people saying Keith. For different reasons but both turn me off the discussion.

I looked at the #starmerout tag earlier which was a mistake. Its an embarrassing mix of lefties fighting themselves and paid tory bots.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Starmer is a pretender. He pretended to be leftwing when it suited him. He pretended to be in favour of party unity. He just lied. He's linked up with the right and still pretends that the left is riddled with anti-semitism, yet ploughs on with expelling anti-zionist jews. He can't be trusted.