Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Shechemite]

Maybe the ‘loons’ were right all along Former Israeli space security chief says aliens exist, humanity not ready

 

[frogwoman]

Maybe the ‘loons’ were right all along Former Israeli space security chief says aliens exist, humanity not ready

Proof at last.

 

[Shechemite]

Proof at last.

but no one will listen to him. The wrong kind of Jew I guess

 

[frogwoman]

but no one will listen to him. The wrong kind of Jew I guess

(((Silenced)))

 

[Shechemite]

(((Silenced)))

 

[frogwoman]

View attachment 242269

Well, that's what they would say.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I'd been thinking until recently that this never-ending circular argument was pointless 'cause everyone is in their own trench and there's no minds about to be changed at this point: however, I can now report that's not true.

Previously I thought that Jeremy Corbyn wasn't an antisemite, but had difficulty recognising antisemitism because of various ideological and psychological barriers - I've come to realise that, in fact, that difficulty he has in recognising it actually is antisemitism. It's not blood libel, gas them all antisemitism, but it's antisemitism all the same.

So cheers for that guys, esp. Rummo. Changing one mind at a time, it's a noble task you're engaged in.

I'd had my doubts about you, but I don't any more.

 

[killer b]

lol the feeling's totally mutual fuckwit.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

lol the feeling's totally mutual fuckwit.

Well at least we know where we think we stand.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I'd had my doubts about you, but I don't any more.

I was going to go on to say, "you're obviously a wonderful human being after all".

 

[rummo]

Have you read anything that confirms this? Are you basing your view on socio-economic meausres? I have read some things on median incomes/wealth by religion but an wondering what you are basing your opinions on.

...and of course this doesn't account for how many MC people of all backgrounds don't vote Tory.

The Daniel Staetsky article I linked to above. Read it.

Who is he? This is how he describes himself on his blog.

'The author is a demographer and a statistician, born in the USSR - a world that no longer exists - and educated in Israel and Britain. The author holds a PhD in Social Statistics and Demography. To date he has served in senior analytical roles in the Central Bureau of Statistics (Israel) and RAND Europe (Cambridge, UK). He is currently a Senior Research Fellow at the Institute for Jewish Policy Research (London, UK). He has published widely on Jewish , Israeli and European demography and social statistics. The author's favourite topics are demographic and social puzzles involving Jews and people that surround them-why do Jews live so long? why do Muslim Arabs in Israel have so many children? why do women-globally- live longer than men? Is there a link between the classic old-fashioned antisemitism and today's antizionism? These are just a few examples of questions that motivated some of his work and on which he has written extensively.'

 

[frogwoman]

The Daniel Staetsky article I linked to above. Read it.

Why?

The author's favourite topics are demographic and social puzzles involving Jews and people that surround them-why do Jews live so long? why do Muslim Arabs in Israel have so many children? why do women-globally- live longer than men? Is there a link between the classic old-fashioned antisemitism and today's antizionism? These are just a few examples of questions that motivated some of his work and on which he has written extensively.'

Lol, seems legit, and definitely not dodgy at all.

 

[frogwoman]

Dp

 

[frogwoman]

I have a good sense of what your view is on these 'demographic and social puzzles' now tho ta

 

[Shechemite]

Yeah jews and demographics in the same piece unlikely to be wholesome

 

[Shechemite]

Abraham. Lived until he was 175. Makes you think

 

[frogwoman]

Dunno, definitely seems like someone I'd come to for insights on the class status of British Jews tbh. I'm sure his opinions are entirely factual and not at all based on weird stereotypes

 

[rummo]

Are posters suggesting that Daniel Staetsky is anti Semitic?

 

[Serge Forward]

Abraham. Lived until he was 175. Makes you think

Obviously middle class and a Tory.

 

[Shechemite]

Had slaves and treated the women in his life like shit. Sent his mistress and his love child into the desert. not to keen on the gays. It’s a little tory

 

[Serge Forward]

So a wrong un then.

 

[Knotted]

I'd been thinking until recently that this never-ending circular argument was pointless 'cause everyone is in their own trench and there's no minds about to be changed at this point: however, I can now report that's not true.

Previously I thought that Jeremy Corbyn wasn't an antisemite, but had difficulty recognising antisemitism because of various ideological and psychological barriers - I've come to realise that, in fact, that difficulty he has in recognising it actually is antisemitism. It's not blood libel, gas them all antisemitism, but it's antisemitism all the same.

So cheers for that guys, esp. Rummo. Changing one mind at a time, it's a noble task you're engaged in.

I came to that conclusion when Corbyn's British Zionists don't understand irony comments came to light. You can excuse/contexturalise it in various ways but the reason he felt comfortable saying something dubious in the first place was that he thought he was punching upwards, and there's all sorts of assumptions there.

 

[ska invita]

Even the fashion industry has an opinion There are all the reasons Jeremy Corbyn is antisemitic, despite his claims to contrary

interesting article about this here

How Britain’s Lifestyle Magazines Went Tory

Recent months have seen Britain's fashion magazines running articles that could have come straight from Conservative Party HQ. It's just the latest right-wing turn in a billionaire-owned media landscape.

tribunemag.co.uk

" Recent months have seen Britain's fashion magazines running articles that could have come straight from Conservative Party HQ. It's just the latest right-wing turn in a billionaire-owned media landscape. "

 

[03gills]

I knew there was a reason I stopped frequenting these forums, going back to page 1 & it's fucking night & day seeing how the discourse over Corbyn has been distorted & warped over time, & the fact that a good number of people on here have actually convinced themselves that a lifelong anti racist campaigner is actually a massive racist, I mean it's just... depressing doesn't even cover it.

I'm sure I'll get shit for this post but I really don't care, but I just won't stand by & have people who should, & do know better joining in on the pile on & shit talking about basically a decent guy who wanted the mildest of mild reform.

 

[Shechemite]

(((Some people))) just don’t want to pay their fair share of tax I guess

 

[mauvais]

There was a Survation poll of 766 "Jewish voters' in October 2019 that put Labour voting intention on 6%:

View attachment 242220

Massive drop off when he came in in 2017 and especially by 2019 it was catastrophic

This is probably a stupid question especially given that I was alive and supposedly paying attention at the time, but you know, sometimes I prefer to forget. 6% and 10% are tomato/tomato really aren't they. Why such a big drop by 2017 when the openly aired media version of the AS debacle was, as I recall, yet to play out?

 

[rummo]

This is probably a stupid question especially given that I was alive and supposedly paying attention at the time, but you know, sometimes I prefer to forget. 6% and 10% are tomato/tomato really aren't they. Why such a big drop by 2017 when the openly aired media version of the AS debacle was, as I recall, yet to play out?

Probably th

This is probably a stupid question especially given that I was alive and supposedly paying attention at the time, but you know, sometimes I prefer to forget. 6% and 10% are tomato/tomato really aren't they. Why such a big drop by 2017 when the openly aired media version of the AS debacle was, as I recall, yet to play out?

Milliband. Attitude towards Israel. Not anti Semitism.

How did Labour lose the trust of Britain’s Jews?

Arguably, Labour's current malaise began not with Corbyn, but his predecessor, Ed Miliband.

www.newstatesman.com

But remember kids, a Corbyn lead government was going to pose an existential threat to Jewish life in the UK.

Better off with Johnson, no deal Brexit and break up of the UK.

 

[Knotted]

I knew there was a reason I stopped frequenting these forums, going back to page 1 & it's fucking night & day seeing how the discourse over Corbyn has been distorted & warped over time, & the fact that a good number of people on here have actually convinced themselves that a lifelong anti racist campaigner is actually a massive racist, I mean it's just... depressing doesn't even cover it.

I'm sure I'll get shit for this post but I really don't care, but I just won't stand by & have people who should, & do know better joining in on the pile on & shit talking about basically a decent guy who wanted the mildest of mild reform.

He's not a massive racist by any stretch, but having done antiracist work does not give you a free pass and to be fair Corbyn isn't claiming it does either. How would that work if he did though? "What and after all I have done for you people?"

The way I look at it is that he tends to solidarise with plainly dodgy people (Mear One, Raed Salih) because they're the little guy or the oppressed guy or they're on-my-team guys. I used think he just didn't see what was wrong with the dodgy stuff, it's an oversight etc. Now I think he just doesn't care or at least it doesn't factor significantly into his political calculations. This solidarity instinct is great in many cases (and exceptional for a Labourite) except it can't just be the blanket response. Thinking about this long after it matters, with respect to that mural I can't believe that someone of his experience, who has moved in the circles he has, has not seen conspiracy stuff and not seen it as a red flag. I think he just thought there were more important free speech/"anti-capitalist" concerns to pursue. Maybe this sort of failure counts as racism or maybe not, but it's really fucking disappointing.

It's still a shame we didn't have a Corbyn led Labour government, it would have been nice to give social democracy a chance after 40 years to at very least see it's limitations. And my thinking these days with the climate crisis, there is genuine environmental (if not necessarily class) value in something like the green new deal. That was probably the last gasp of such politics and we're unlikely to see it again.

Anyway he's not Labour leader any more and it's pretty pointless banging on about all this except he's not the only one with this sort of problem.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I find it all massively frustrating because there's such an inability to accept that more than one thing can be true at once. Perhaps it's all a reflection of persistent binary opinions more generally. It is entirely possible that Corbyn is a dedicated anti-racist and also promoted some dumb shit. It is entirely possible that there are many people both within and without the Labour Party who want to smear Labour and the left generally as intrinsically anti-semitic, using both exaggerations and outright falsehoods, and that there are a shitload of anti-semites outside of Labour and the left who get ignored, and also that there are a bunch of both hardcore anti-semites as well as unexamined prejudices and assumptions on the left who/which need dealing with. These can all be the case at the same time.

 

[rummo]

He's not a massive racist by any stretch, but having done antiracist work does not give you a free pass and to be fair Corbyn isn't claiming it does either. How would that work if he did though? "What and after all I have done for you people?"

The way I look at it is that he tends to solidarise with plainly dodgy people (Mear One, Raed Salih) because they're the little guy or the oppressed guy or they're on-my-team guys. I used think he just didn't see what was wrong with the dodgy stuff, it's an oversight etc. Now I think he just doesn't care or at least it doesn't factor significantly into his political calculations. This solidarity instinct is great in many cases (and exceptional for a Labourite) except it can't just be the blanket response. Thinking about this long after it matters, with respect to that mural I can't believe that someone of his experience, who has moved in the circles he has, has not seen conspiracy stuff and not seen it as a red flag. I think he just thought there were more important free speech/"anti-capitalist" concerns to pursue. Maybe this sort of failure counts as racism or maybe not, but it's really fucking disappointing.

It's still a shame we didn't have a Corbyn led Labour government, it would have been nice to give social democracy a chance after 40 years to at very least see it's limitations. And my thinking these days with the climate crisis, there is genuine environmental (if not necessarily class) value in something like the green new deal. That was probably the last gasp of such politics and we're unlikely to see it again.

Anyway he's not Labour leader any more and it's pretty pointless banging on about all this except he's not the only one with this sort of problem.

The mural thing.

Just exactly what happened?

Was he asked online to endorse some sort of campaign to stop the mural being remove and told it's about capitalism and poverty and some Tory councillor has objected to it. Has he seen a copy of the mural on his phone, thought about it for anything up to a minute and sent a supportive message?

Is that what happened? Or was he aware of the allegations of anti Semitism, did he have a chance to see the mural on anything larger than a phone screen, and decide and due consideration and reflection to support it anyway? ( I genuinely don't know).