Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[frogwoman]

We've got loads of money so of course we've got a class based aversion to corbyn's policies! Oh and we think Israeli policies are all great! NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT THO!

 

[danny la rouge]

 

[splonkydoo]

Fucking hell. Both of you.

 

[danny la rouge]

We've got loads of money so of course we've got a class based aversion to corbyn's policies! Oh and we think Israeli policies are all great! NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT THO!

On the plus side, you’re good at dancing.

 

[Flavour]

rummo these are very interesting and salient points you make.

to what extent do you think British Jews within the Labour Party (and beyond it, who knows!) are responsible for stymying Corbyn's Left Wing Agenda and indeed their election defeats under Corbyn? Would you say they had a disproportionate influence over such matters, in line with their disproportionate wealth?

 

[bimble]

Rummo’s just saying it like it is, as Andrew Murray did when asked about whether JC has empathy for the Jews. His response was he totally would have if it was still the 1930s.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Fucking hell, so it was the Jews who finally meant ‘Jeremy Corbyn’s time is up’

 

[frogwoman]

Did they crash the world economy with a fake virus as well lol

 

[killer b]

I'd been thinking until recently that this never-ending circular argument was pointless 'cause everyone is in their own trench and there's no minds about to be changed at this point: however, I can now report that's not true.

Previously I thought that Jeremy Corbyn wasn't an antisemite, but had difficulty recognising antisemitism because of various ideological and psychological barriers - I've come to realise that, in fact, that difficulty he has in recognising it actually is antisemitism. It's not blood libel, gas them all antisemitism, but it's antisemitism all the same.

So cheers for that guys, esp. Rummo. Changing one mind at a time, it's a noble task you're engaged in.

 

[Shechemite]

On the plus side, you’re good at dancing.

the video of my bar mitzvah would suggest otherwise

 

[danny la rouge]

the video of my bar mitzvah would suggest otherwise

My mistake. Is that the Welsh, then?

 

[Shechemite]

Having said that, gentiles outnumbered Jews 10 to 1 at all of mine and my siblings bar/bat mitzvah’s, including the manager of my Sunday league team (ex-NF member incidentally)

 

[cantsin]

I'd been thinking until recently that this never-ending circular argument was pointless 'cause everyone is in their own trench and there's no minds about to be changed at this point: however, I can now report that's not true.

Previously I thought that Jeremy Corbyn wasn't an antisemite, but had difficulty recognising antisemitism because of various ideological and psychological barriers - I've come to realise that, in fact, that difficulty he has in recognising it actually is antisemitism. It's not blood libel, gas them all antisemitism, but it's antisemitism all the same.

So cheers for that guys, esp. Rummo. Changing one mind at a time, it's a noble task you're engaged in.

hallelujah -you've been surrounded by 5 + years of incessant discourse around the subject, but now one encounter with a new U75 rando and the scales have fallen from your eyes, impressive stuff

 

[killer b]

especially not only, and this recent discussion has just helped clarify stuff that's been floating around for a while. Embarrassed it's taken so long tbh, but there we are.

 

[rummo]

“British Jews”, for the hard of thinking, are not “a class”, even with the qualifier “a lot” of Jews.

Furthermore, the Board of Deputies of British Jews is a 250 year old religious committee. And you’re telling us it’s conservative? Oh my! How did we ever manage without your rapier like perspicacity?

British Jews are not a class, well done that's correct.

But individual British Jews, as individuals, belong to a class.

Same as Muslims, Janes, Mormons, Christadelphians, Quakers ,Pagans, everyone in fact.

And individual British Jews, just like everyone else tend (and yes, there are exceptions) to vote, in accordance with their class and economic interests, at least as they perceive them.

So, if a majority of British Jews are now part of the comfortably off middle class the likelihood is that they would not be in favour of a left wing Labour government.

Not because Jews are different to anyone else, but because they aren't different to anyone else.

So the question is, are British Jews now predominantly middle class? I'd suggest they probably are.

 

[splonkydoo]

British Jews are not a class, well done that's correct.

But individual British Jews, as individuals, belong to a class.

Same as Muslims, Janes, Mormons, Christadelphians, Quakers ,Pagans, everyone in fact.

And individual British Jews, just like everyone else tend (and yes, there are exceptions) to vote, in accordance with their class and economic interests, at least as they perceive them.

So, if a majority of British Jews are now part of the comfortably off middle class the likelihood is that they would not be in favour of a left wing Labour government.

Not because Jews are different to anyone else, but because they aren't different to anyone else.

So the question is, are British Jews now predominantly middle class? I'd suggest they probably are.

Fuck off with your conspiratorial sociology.

 

[rummo]

rummo these are very interesting and salient points you make.

to what extent do you think British Jews within the Labour Party (and beyond it, who knows!) are responsible for stymying Corbyn's Left Wing Agenda and indeed their election defeats under Corbyn? Would you say they had a disproportionate influence over such matters, in line with their disproportionate wealth?

Sorry, but that's a very poor effort.

 

[danny la rouge]

rummo give up. You’ve already been handed something. And because it’s you I know you’ll need a hint. So here goes: it’s not your elbow.

 

[oryx]

So, if a majority of British Jews are now part of the comfortably off middle class the likelihood is that they would not be in favour of a left wing Labour government.

Loads of comfortably off, middle class people are in favour of a left-wing Labour government so why not some British Jews?

 

[frogwoman]

FWIW, if you're jewish and on the left you will have experienced antisemitism from someone. This long predates Corbyn but some of what took place under his rule really didn't help, to put it mildly. I don't generally like to stick my neck out on discussions like this tbh but rummo's idiocy needed responded to.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Loads of comfortably off, middle class people are in favour of a left-wing Labour government so why not some British Jews?

As this suggests:

Rummo can’t even get the shifting class dynamics or the history of Jewish voting patterns (and why they developed) right.

 

[brogdale]

There was a Survation poll of 766 "Jewish voters' in October 2019 that put Labour voting intention on 6%:

 

[danny la rouge]

In 2019, though.

 

[brogdale]

In 2019, though.

Yep, mid September to mid October 2019, apparently.

 

[Shechemite]

So there was a Lib Dem surge!

 

[frogwoman]

1. October 2019
2. 766 voters
3. Given what the main news story in politics was at the time I'd suggest that's hardly fucking surprising (although I'm surprised that Lib Dems are so low tbf)

 

[andysays]

There was a Survation poll of 766 "Jewish voters' in October 2019 that put Labour voting intention on 6%:

View attachment 242220

I'd take that poll with at least a pinch of salt, given that it doesn't appear to define who exactly it means by British Jews.

As should be obvious, neither the publication Jewish News nor the organisation Jewish Leadership Council represent all British Jews, they are both likely to be heavily dominated by those likely to vote Conservative rather than Labour

 

[danny la rouge]

3. Given what the main news story in politics was at the time I'd suggest that's hardly fucking surprising

That’s indeed what I was implying.

 

[brogdale]

So there was a Lib Dem surge!

Certainly was in Finchley & Golders Green where Berger took the LD share of the popular vote up by 25%.

 

[brogdale]

1. October 2019
2. 766 voters
3. Given what the main news story in politics was at the time I'd suggest that's hardly fucking surprising (although I'm surprised that Lib Dems are so low tbf)

tbf to Survation, most Westminster polling operates around 1k so, if they really did get 766 'Jewish voters', that wasn't the most tragic sample size for a poll.