Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[two sheds]

Indeed. Throw the accusation as often as it's been thrown and people will believe it nomatter what actually happened. Bugger all you can do in defence really apart from examining the accusations one by one and admitting the ones that are true and pointing out the ones that aren't.

 

[Mr Moose]

Indeed. Throw the accusation as often as it's been thrown and people will believe it nomatter what actually happened. Bugger all you can do in defence really apart from examining the accusations one by one and admitting the ones that are true and pointing out the ones that aren't.

There was always a lot more than that which could be done and could be done now. Even now Corbyn and other Labour leaders could offer personal apologies to their enemies, could offer to meet with them as well as giving an angry warning off to followers on social media who overstep the line. Invite Jewish leaders to a conference or further exploration of antisemitism and Israel, even be very honest about the disquiet within Labour around the treatment of Palestinian people. High risk, maybe, but actually becomes more difficult to criticise Labour if it is seen to be making every possible effort.

 

[bimble]

I'm interested, just a bit out of puff on it all tbh

I know, its exhausting. Thanks though cos i thought maybe the post was invisible.

 

[two sheds]

I wasn't sure what Rutita meant - the post was following on from a discussion on Starmer's expulsion of Corbyn so I assumed something to do with that.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

There was always a lot more than that which could be done and could be done now. Even now Corbyn and other Labour leaders could offer personal apologies to their enemies, could offer to meet with them as well as giving an angry warning off to followers on social media who overstep the line. Invite Jewish leaders to a conference or further exploration of antisemitism and Israel, even be very honest about the disquiet within Labour around the treatment of Palestinian people. High risk, maybe, but actually becomes more difficult to criticise Labour if it is seen to be making every possible effort.

So Corbyn offers to meet and talk with Margaret Hodge. She tells him to get stuffed. He then invites Jewish leaders, by which you mean right wing pro-Israeli leaders, to explain his disquiet about Palestine. They tell him to get stuffed. Mission accomplished.

 

[brogdale]

Good morning. Still nobody has a clue what group of people were being described here ?

(yes i think I will keep doing this, not to annoy Rutita, its the total ignoring of it by everyone else that's the point.)

Perhaps the lack of 'clue' you project onto others might explain the lack of response to the post that you're highlighting?
If you think the post is worthy of further discussion it might help if you were more explicit about what you find concerning about the term used.

 

[danny la rouge]

I know, its exhausting. Thanks though cos i thought maybe the post was invisible.

I’ve not been following the thread. (Because I’ve better things to do than waste brain space on the former leader of a party I didn’t trust to bring about socialism under his inept leadership). But I looked back to see the context of the post. It appears to be a bit of a non sequitur. I haven’t read the antisemitism report, so it could relate to something in that, I suppose.

 

[bimble]

maybe everyone was just nonplussed by the post, ok.
To repeat, it said

'Exceptionalism' really is a fucking arse of an expectation and the worse kind of emotionally immature and intellectually dishonest manipulation.

The context was feeling impassionedly defensive of jeremy corbyn and his reaction to the ehrc report.

But what it is is a description of a group of people as

• Expecting to be treated like they are special or deserve special treatment ('exceptionalism')
• dishonesty & manipulativeness.

So I've been asking, what group of people are being described in that little outburst.

It's not the right of the labour party (in what way would they be claiming 'exceptionalism' ?)
It's not the authors of the ehrc. Is it Bulgarians? Fishermen? Is it perhaps . . Zionists?

The point for me is not actually what she meant its that what was said went totally ignored, it was just passed over maybe a bit awkwardly idk.
Whereas on this website usually if someone ventures to describe a whole load of people from whatever demographic as sharing a bunch of shitty characteristics people do not just ignore it because they're on the same team.

 

[Mr Moose]

So Corbyn offers to meet and talk with Margaret Hodge. She tells him to get stuffed. He then invites Jewish leaders, by which you mean right wing pro-Israeli leaders, to explain his disquiet about Palestine. They tell him to get stuffed. Mission accomplished.

Yes, because he hadn’t faced up to the extent of the problem. I’m not saying there isn’t risk or that it wouldn’t need careful bridge building, but if it was done well enough his enemies would eventually look unreasonable. That’s if a way back is what he wants.

Tough as this is, the current approach, to take on the leadership, has zero chance of long term success. Zero. Even if he, quite plausibly, wins that the loss of the whip was unlawful or a wrong decision under a JR, then what? He’s simply a peripheral figure with a milestone around his neck. In the eyes of most people, the man who never accepted his failings and worse and continual impediment to Labour.

 

[danny la rouge]

But what it is is a description of a group of people as

• Expecting to be treated like they are special or deserve special treatment ('exceptionalism')
• dishonesty & manipulativeness.

So I've been asking, what group of people are being described in that little outburst.

And it’s a fair question.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Yes, because he hadn’t faced up to the extent of the problem. I’m not saying there isn’t risk or that it wouldn’t need careful bridge building, but if it was done well enough his enemies would eventually look unreasonable. That’s if a way back is what he wants.

Tough as this is, the current approach, to take on the leadership, has zero chance of long term success. Zero. Even if he, quite plausibly, wins that the loss of the whip was unlawful or a wrong decision under a JR, then what? He’s simply a peripheral figure with a milestone around his neck. In the eyes of most people, the man who never accepted his failings and worse and continual impediment to Labour.

The extent of the problem is the important bit. Very many people in the Labour Party do not accept that there is a significant problem of anti-semitism in the party, and that does include those awkward people in Jewish Voice for Labour. Whether they are correct or not, that is their opinion. That being the case there is no way that they feel a need to apologise or any of that, and to go along with the victimisation of Corbyn they would feel to be complicit in that campaign. An attack on Corbyn is seen as an attack on them. Acceptance of the stitch-up EHRC report would similarly hypocritical. So we are stuck with the impasse of two sides of a manufactured conflict unwilling to give an inch.

 

[brogdale]

And it’s a fair question.

And could be addressed quite straightforwardly by the poster, I'd imagine?

 

[stethoscope]

Whereas on this website usually if someone ventures to describe a whole load of people from whatever demographic as sharing a bunch of shitty characteristics people do not just ignore it because they're on the same team.

FWIW, its been happening about trans people on here for years, with posters scrolling on by too.

 

[Pickman's model]

And could be addressed quite straightforwardly by the poster, I'd imagine?

Yes

 

[danny la rouge]

FWIW, its been happening about trans people on here for years, with posters scrolling on by too.

Sorry.

 

[Mr Moose]

The extent of the problem is the important bit. Very many people in the Labour Party do not accept that there is a significant problem of anti-semitism in the party, and that does include those awkward people in Jewish Voice for Labour. Whether they are correct or not, that is their opinion. That being the case there is no way that they feel a need to apologise or any of that, and to go along with the victimisation of Corbyn they would feel to be complicit in that campaign. An attack on Corbyn is seen as an attack on them. Acceptance of the stitch-up EHRC report would similarly hypocritical. So we are stuck with the impasse of two sides of a manufactured conflict unwilling to give an inch.

Corbyn has every right to walk away from this as a private citizen feeling he has done his bit. If he wants to carry on as a high profile politician he has not done nearly enough to address the behaviour in his name and anyone who wants to die on that hill with him takes on that baggage.

Time and again we see the way forward from conflict is truth and reconciliation. If Paisley and McGuinness can manage it then Corbyn and a chosen enemy can and there could be benefits for Corbyn. It’s the only way that I can see any positives for him emerging.

 

[Pickman's model]

Corbyn has every right to walk away from this as a private citizen feeling he has done his bit. If he wants to carry on as a high profile politician he has not done nearly enough to address the behaviour in his name and anyone who wants to die on that hill with him takes on that baggage.

Time and again we see the way forward from conflict is truth and reconciliation. If Paisley and McGuinness can manage it then Corbyn and a chosen enemy can and there could be benefits for Corbyn. It’s the only way that I can see any positives for him emerging.

Has Corbyn mustered a paramilitary organisation like paisley or McGuinness?

 

[Mr Moose]

Has Corbyn mustered a paramilitary organisation like paisley or McGuinness?

Look at the bloke and you tell me.

Has he been involved in a long running political conflict? Yes.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Corbyn has every right to walk away from this as a private citizen feeling he has done his bit. If he wants to carry on as a high profile politician he has not done nearly enough to address the behaviour in his name and anyone who wants to die on that hill with him takes on that baggage.

Time and again we see the way forward from conflict is truth and reconciliation. If Paisley and McGuinness can manage it then Corbyn and a chosen enemy can and there could be benefits for Corbyn. It’s the only way that I can see any positives for him emerging.

Hmmmmnn. Truth and reconciliation. Give over. Labour's right wing are interested in neither. Never have been since Corbyn became leader.

 

[Pickman's model]

Look at the bloke and you tell me.

Has he been involved in a long running political conflict? Yes.

You compared Corbyn in the LP to paisley with his history of flirting and more than flirting with paramilitaries and mm and his history in the official and provisional iras. So you tell me

 

[belboid]

Corbyn has every right to walk away from this as a private citizen feeling he has done his bit. If he wants to carry on as a high profile politician he has not done nearly enough to address the behaviour in his name and anyone who wants to die on that hill with him takes on that baggage.

Time and again we see the way forward from conflict is truth and reconciliation. If Paisley and McGuinness can manage it then Corbyn and a chosen enemy can and there could be benefits for Corbyn. It’s the only way that I can see any positives for him emerging.

why should anyone try for 'reconciliation' with a piece of human shit like Hodge? She should be burnt alive, chopped into pieces and fed to Wes Streeting.

 

[killer b]

It is difficult to imagine a reconciliation being possible right now, this is true

 

[Pickman's model]

Look at the bloke and you tell me.

Has he been involved in a long running political conflict? Yes.

Right, only the people you don't like need to be truthful and reconcile

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

why should anyone try for 'reconciliation' with a piece of human shit like Hodge? She should be burnt alive, chopped into pieces and fed to Wes Streeting.

Streeting did work at McDonald's once, so fair point.

 

[Mr Moose]

Right, only the people you don't like need to be truthful and reconcile

He can do it or not. Nothing to do with me. I’m just saying there’s no hope in him achieving rehabilitation by simply fighting with the current Labour Party leadership. What do you think happens if he does?

 

[Mr Moose]

why should anyone try for 'reconciliation' with a piece of human shit like Hodge? She should be burnt alive, chopped into pieces and fed to Wes Streeting.

Or you can carry on that talk. How’s that working for everyone right now? What’s the Red Wall view of left wing people who conduct themselves like that?

Your intemperance suggests why Corbyn is a nightmare for Labour going forward. Brings all the boys to the yard.

 

[Mr Moose]

It is difficult to imagine a reconciliation being possible right now, this is true

It rarely is in truth. But publicly attempting it does help people put down their cudgels and start again.

 

[Pickman's model]

He can do it or not. Nothing to do with me. I’m just saying there’s no hope in him achieving rehabilitation by simply fighting with the current Labour Party leadership. What do you think happens if he does?

Seems to me the clpl are fighting with him

 

[littlebabyjesus]

[

Or you can carry on that talk. How’s that working for everyone right now? What’s the Red Wall view of left wing people who conduct themselves like that?

Your intemperance suggests why Corbyn is a nightmare for Labour going forward. Brings all the boys to the yard.

Starmer is the nightmare for Labour going forward. Suspending Corbyn for a statement in which he exercised rights to free speech and freedom of opinion that the EHRC report explicitly protected was a divisive thing to do, and a foolish one as it was never going to stick legally. Withholding the whip is also a deeply divisive thing to do and Starmer can't hide behind process when doing that - it's his gift.

It's stupid to pretend this is about anti-Semitism any more. It's a power struggle within Labour and Starmer is determined to confront Corbyn, Momentum and the Socialist Campaign Group. It's his Militant expulsion/Clause 4 moment. It was absolutely within his power to handle this differently, even after Corbyn's initial statement. He chose not to. You need to ask why he did that.

 

[Shechemite]

How do you see it panning out?