Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Confessions obtained under physical or psychological torture should not be relied upon as factual evidence.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Carry on like that and Labour will end up like one of the fake parties that East Germany used to create a thin veneer of pluralism to cover one-party rule.The revisionist Starmerite clique seem to be upping its purge of leftists
And
Labour’s Bristol West Suspensions Are an Attack on Party Democracy
The suspension of the chair and co-secretary of Bristol West CLP over a motion supporting Jeremy Corbyn is a calculated attack on Labour members' rights and party democracy.tribunemag.co.uk
And we know how that worked out in the end.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Both, I suspect. And he still hasn't got the whip back.
oryx
Sitting on the bok of the day
I would say no as being an independent doesn't mean you are a member of another party.If he's not got the whip and is effectively standing as an independent, doesn't that mean he'll have to be expelled from Labour because he's a member of another party?
Didn't Johnson withdraw the whip from Clarke, Soames etc. over Brexit?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The suspension would have been ended anyway, I suspect, because they had no case. He hadn't broken any rule to justify it. They were directly going against the EHRC recommendations by suspending him in the first place.
My reading of his statement today is that it was aimed more at getting the whip back and having all this put behind him (Ha!). Clearly it has failed so far. Starmer wants to look hard. The Hard Centre.
My reading of his statement today is that it was aimed more at getting the whip back and having all this put behind him (Ha!). Clearly it has failed so far. Starmer wants to look hard. The Hard Centre.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
starmer's just looking like a whiny little shit
Won't be the first time I've been led up the garden path by a leftist promising all the answers
I'm not promising any answers! It's ok to say 'this could have been done better' without offering a fully formed alternative political programme.
I appreciate that there were institutional - and factional - barriers to reforming the complaints process that was in place when Corbyn became leader, but I don't accept they were insurmountable. More resources could have been given to sorting it out, and if complaints were held up for factional reasons the people responsible for holding things up could have been held responsible for it - and before anyone mentions the EHRC recommendations about political interference, the EHRC inquiry wasn't an inevitable result of this. If the political interference into the complaints process had been done correctly and in a timely fashion, and they'd got on top of it, there would have been no inquiry.
I think that they probably underestimated how much of a defining issue this would become until it was too late to effectively get a handle on it - I underestimated it myself - but there should have been more action taken on it because it was the right thing to do, not because of the damage it could cause the leadership. There is a rich seam of antisemitism that runs through the left, and rather than leaping defensively to whataboutery or denial when it comes up, we should be working on challenging, educating or excluding those who indulge in it (my own experience of challenging and educating is that it's fairly difficult, have to say - mostly because of the denial).
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
ain’t no party like a bloc party.
'You know how JC's statement today'
If I've got this right that statement was made by Corbyn to the Labour Party on 29th October.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
I'd say that, worse than that, he's looking like someone with zero political nous.
With hindsight, of course, the leaked "The work of the Labour Party's Governance and Legal Unit in relation to antisemitism, 2014–2019" showed that the left were no where near ruthless enough in purging the right that sabotaged exploiting the institutional - and factional - barriers to reforming the complaints process.
Nor did the left realise the effectiveness of their opponents to amplify and project the antisemitism that did/does exist with in the party.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
ok, a whiny little shit with all the political nous of a lobotomised earthworm
bimble
floofy
it was yesterday, not today. eta oh i see what you mean, he said this and the thing about 'the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party', on the same day.
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two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I largely agree, but again the tory party has done none of the chasing out of antisemites and islamophobes and homophobes. How have they got away with it when Labour hasn't?
The Yougov surveys showed that there is less antisemitism and racism within the Labour party than the tory party, and less antisemitism after Corbyn took over. Which does suggest that any antisemitism was blown up out of proportion. The Daily Mail and the Express and their like were looking for anything to throw at Corbyn.
Yes there was antisemitism among the left (the far left particularly?) and no antisemitism should be tolerated. But I don't think it's whataboutery to ask why did Labour come in for such intense and sustained criticism when the tories didn't?
Read the statement
'On the day I was suspended I gave a broadcast interview to clarify what I had said in response to the EHRC report, and I also made a statement to the party to clear up any confusion about what I had meant, as follows: ..............'
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBF "no where near ruthless enough" does give a perhaps misleading impression that they did something, rather than nothing. Was anyone of prominence actually dealt with for anything - not just AS, but all the other scandals (I am thinking of Woodcock, Danczuk, Hopkins etc)?
bimble
floofy
yep edited. All perfectly clear now.
The thumb is on the scale, we know that. The Tories have a number of inbuilt advantages in this regard - their friends own all the media, and their voters and members don't care very much about bigotry.
Agreed - a broad church was always a fantasy
Oh, and I know this isn't what you're doing here, but the whole 'there is antisemitism in the Labour Party - as there is throughout society' schtick that Corbyn does is IMO a form of denial, a shrugging off of responsibility: it ignores that there's a fairly specific flavour of antisemitism in the Labour Party, which is quite different from the more widely indulged antisemitism.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Indeed not.
I've always felt it is not only possible, but also very important, to be able to simultaneously hold the two notions of actually existing left-wing antisemitism and the right's actually existing political exploitation of that fact.
The right's effective, orchestrated exploitation of LP antisemitism in the face of left populism is as real as the problem it identified.
bimble
floofy
Yes. The antisemitism that's probably standard in the tory party is the same kind as is casually offered round like polite nibbles at dinner parties out here in the home counties, it is a lazy pretty apolitical sort of bigotry and a completely different flavour to the kind i've been around socially most of my life, they are not the same thing.
The 'as there is throughout society' and look at the tories stuff feels like an absolute cop out or just plain ignorance every time i hear it. And I'm pretty sure that a couple of years back I'd not have felt stupidly grateful for someone on the internet stating this thing which seems to me a totally obvious fact but here we are.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Tory antisemitism not so bad, then?
bimble
floofy
Just standard. Do you expect them to not be racist?
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Labour and far left antisemitism is generally tied to Israel's treatment of the Palestinians?
When that leeches over into criticism of the Jews then it's clearly antisemitic. But criticism of Israel is also treated by some as antisemitic on its own. That also confuses the matter.
When that leeches over into criticism of the Jews then it's clearly antisemitic. But criticism of Israel is also treated by some as antisemitic on its own. That also confuses the matter.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
So, there's 'standard' antisemitism and 'non-standard' antisemitism, then?
The latter being qualitatively different to the former?
Interesting.
bimble
floofy
I expect a fairly large segment of english people to be the boring automatic unthinking kind of general racists with a side order of antisemitism that just comes with it, like a garnish. Thats what i mean by standard, standard issue basic no frills bigotry, like the daily mail, or the completely ordinary woman i met recently who called jews 'a sharp elbowed people', that. If you think the problem 'on the left' is that same thing just sprinkled at random through the population, then idk really how to assist.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Well, a number of Tories have been promoting hardcore anti Semitic conspiracy theories from the far right ("cultural Marxism") recently, and the PM wrote a book with a hook nosed sex pervert chiselling Jew.
But it is also a cop out - if you're in Labour, what the Tories do isn't the point, you need to deal with what you can in your own sphere. It may need pointing out that it extends further than Labour but that's not what someone in Labour should be emphasising in this context.
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