Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Wilf]

Probably not. There isn't a legacy, as least in the Labour Party. It was a strange fluke that he ended up leading it, and there was never the sound and experienced base of support there to make it sustainable.

I guess beyond the party, who knows? It's too early to say. If there's one thing we can thank Starmer for, it's making it clear Labour isn't the vehicle for radical change it briefly appeared it might have been. The material conditions that made Corbyn happen aren't going away - something will be along soon enough, and you can be sure lessons will be taken from the past five years. Possibly not the right ones, but...

Agree with all of that, though I'm not sure the material conditions will necessarily produce something good.

I just feel compelled to do my usual line that Corbynism failed because it never became something else, something active, something that breached the administrative walls of the being a 'party'. More than that, it could never even imagine that different type of politics. And so it stayed what it was, a flabby reanimated social democracy allied to the top down manoeuvreings of Momentum. Didn't transform the party, didn't even take control of the party - even with 400000 new recruits . What a fucking waste! Labour remained in absolute perfect shape to fuck up Brexit and duly delivered on that. At the very point that Johnson was bellowing GET BREXIT DONE and connecting to northern voters, Labour's approach was, well, who knows, I've forgotten, nobody even remembers. Labour could barely pull ahead of Theresa May at the point she was the most beleaguered Prime Minister in living memory. What shit politics and instincts Corbyn and his followers had. And look what their failure has left us with.

 

[killer b]

You are aware of who was overseeing the complaints process for the first couple of years of the Corbyn leadership? And the disparity in their performance over AS compared to the latter half? And the reasons why?

I am. I don't think that means there was nothing that could have been done differently and better though, sorry.

 

[JTG]

I am. I don't think that means there was nothing that could have been done differently and better though, sorry.

Oh right. Cheers then.

 

[belboid]

They could have expelled a couple of loons straight away. But they weren’t the point, nor were they the target of those scrawling through old Facebook posts. Those people were looking for anyone who had been furiously critical of Israel (particularly during the previously mentioned Gaza invasion). They were having a go at people making obvious jokes. All of that would have continued even if a couple of Rothschild arses were kicked out. It’s woefully naive to pretend anything else.

of course they should have been kicked out, but doing so without tackling head on the racism of those pro-Israel politicians and trying to triangulate an acceptable position was totally doomed to failure. They would never give up (and, from their POV, why should they?)

A policy of expelling LFI members would have at least brought everything out nice and neatly.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

The revisionist Starmerite clique seem to be upping its purge of leftists

In the latest attack on party democracy, several members of Bristol West CLP – including its chair and co-secretary – have been suspended from the party for considering a motion opposing Jeremy Corbyn’s suspension.

And

Members in nearby Kingswood CLP reported this week that the regional director had intervened to block them from donating £3,000 of the constituency party’s money to important local causes including food banks, a local refugee charity and tenants’ rights organisation Acorn.

With apologies to Bertolt Brecht, it seems the Labour leadership really would like to dissolve its party membership and elect another.

Labour’s Bristol West Suspensions Are an Attack on Party Democracy

The suspension of the chair and co-secretary of Bristol West CLP over a motion supporting Jeremy Corbyn is a calculated attack on Labour members' rights and party democracy.

tribunemag.co.uk

 

[JTG]

They could have expelled a couple of loons straight away. But they weren’t the point, nor were they the target of those scrawling through old Facebook posts. Those people were looking for anyone who had been furiously critical of Israel (particularly during the previously mentioned Gaza invasion). They were having a go at people making obvious jokes. All of that would have continued even if a couple of Rothschild arses were kicked out. It’s woefully naive to pretend anything else.

of course they should have been kicked out, but doing so without tackling head on the racism of those pro-Israel politicians and trying to triangulate an acceptable position was totally doomed to failure. They would never give up (and, from their POV, why should they?)

A policy of expelling LFI members would have at least brought everything out nice and neatly.

One of the EHRC criticisms of Corbyn is that he intervened to expedite the expulsion of Livingstone. But obviously there are things that the leadership could have done better and not been criticised for anyway

 

[Pickman's model]

The revisionist Starmerite clique seem to be upping its purge of leftists



And

Labour’s Bristol West Suspensions Are an Attack on Party Democracy

The suspension of the chair and co-secretary of Bristol West CLP over a motion supporting Jeremy Corbyn is a calculated attack on Labour members' rights and party democracy.

tribunemag.co.uk

the reactionary revisionist starmer clique and their claque

 

[rummo]

Sure it did, but it wasn't inevitable that it end like this. There were actions that Labour could have taken under Corbyn that could have avoided the situation the party currently finds themselves in.

Such as?

Oh yeah, get rid of the anti Semites.

Such as Stephen Solley.

 

[platinumsage]

The revisionist Starmerite clique seem to be upping its purge of leftists

Good. Maybe that will incentivise them into actually doing something useful with their leftism. If they're any good that is.

 

[killer b]

So here we are then, in the best of all possible worlds.

 

[JTG]

Good. Maybe that will incentivise them into actually doing something useful with their leftism. If they're any good that is.

Quite a few of the Bristol West members affected have been doing outstanding work already

 

[littlebabyjesus]

So here we are then, in the best of all possible worlds.

rummo makes a valid point, though. You say 'kick out the antisemites'. But different people disagree as to who they are.

To be fair to the EHRC report, I thought it did a decent job of defining AS and the permissible scope of any action against members, specifically permitting the right to criticise Israel and the right to disagree as to the extent of AS in the Labour party. But Starmer and others are not following that - hence the actions against Corbyn - and they were never going to.

 

[belboid]

So here we are then, in the best of all possible worlds.

You are still being very vague about what could actually be achieved.

 

[JTG]

You are still being very vague about what could actually be achieved.

Stuff. And things.

 

[killer b]

nothing. there's nothing that could have been done better. it's all the fault of Labour Friends of Israel.

 

[belboid]

nothing. there's nothing that could have been done better. it's all the fault of Labour Friends of Israel.

Stop whining about other people and tell us what your proposal would have been then, we’re all agog.

 

[Pickman's model]

Stop whining about other people and tell us what your proposal would have been then, we’re all agog.

i fear his solution will not live up to the anticipation it has excited.

 

[JTG]

i fear his solution will not live up to the anticipation it has excited.

Won't be the first time I've been led up the garden path by a leftist promising all the answers

 

[brogdale]

Perhaps, if the LP had elected a Jewish leader things may have turned out differently?

 

[Wilf]

In terms of the 'here we are' point, the show has been shitted and the car has crashed. Is there any point in the left trying to keep alive the vision of those mass Corbyn rallies from 2015? Can they grab hold of the 400k who Corbyn marched up to the top of the hill? Just another push, another battle for candidate selection or whatever bit of admin comes next. Is anybody really up for another jog round the law of diminished returns?

We'll be emerging from covid, next Spring, Summer, who knows. The next wave of permanent austerity, the gig economy, crises in the care sector, mental health... Is there a chance that Corbyn's former troops will throw themselves into those battles? Of course some already are, but the parliamentary road to warmed up social democracy has been a 5 year black hole for those energies. Everything is shit at the moment, but throwing your energies into Sir Keir's army of sensible nothingness... why bother?

 

[JTG]

In terms of the 'here we are' point, the show has been shitted and the car has crashed. Is there any point in the left trying to keep alive the vision of those mass Corbyn rallies from 2015? Can they grab hold of the 400k who Corbyn marched up to the top of the hill? Just another push, another battle for candidate selection or whatever bit of admin comes next. Is anybody really up for another jog round the law of diminished returns?

We'll be emerging from covid, next Spring, Summer, who knows. The next wave of permanent austerity, the gig economy, crises in the care sector, mental health... Is there a chance that Corbyn's former troops will throw themselves into those battles? Of course some already are, but the parliamentary road to warmed up social democracy has been a 5 year black hole for those energies. Everything is shit at the moment, but throwing your energies into Sir Keir's army of sensible nothingness... why bother?

Yeah but you know... onwards
xx

 

[Wilf]

Perhaps, if the LP had elected a Jewish leader things may have turned out differently?

View attachment 239434

'Red Ed's Dead Dad'

 

[Pickman's model]

In terms of the 'here we are' point, the show has been shitted and the car has crashed. Is there any point in the left trying to keep alive the vision of those mass Corbyn rallies from 2015? Can they grab hold of the 400k who Corbyn marched up to the top of the hill? Just another push, another battle for candidate selection or whatever bit of admin comes next. Is anybody really up for another jog round the law of diminished returns?

We'll be emerging from covid, next Spring, Summer, who knows. The next wave of permanent austerity, the gig economy, crises in the care sector, mental health... Is there a chance that Corbyn's former troops will throw themselves into those battles? Of course some already are, but the parliamentary road to warmed up social democracy has been a 5 year black hole for those energies. Everything is shit at the moment, but throwing your energies into Sir Keir's army of sensible nothingness... why bother?

sir keir's pot of warmed up thatcher-lite vomit

 

[brogdale]

'Red Ed's Dead Dad'

The “east European refugee from nazism” father of the bacon scoffing “north London geek” elected to serve the interests of “the north London metropolitan elite”?

 

[JTG]

The “east European refugee from nazism” father of the bacon scoffing “north London geek” elected to serve the interests of “the north London metropolitan elite”?

Were any of these people 'rootless cosmopolitans'?

 

[Wilf]

sir keir's pot of warmed up thatcher-lite vomit

Labour's USP: 'Forensic thatcher-lite-vomit'. Unfortunately, even the most skilled mountebank failed to sell this.

 

[brogdale]

Were any of these people 'rootless cosmopolitans'?

Worse..."cultural Marxists" as well.

 

[Wilf]

Were any of these people 'rootless cosmopolitans'?

'Wave after wave, breaching our borders, bringing with them words, ideas and offering to fight in the RAF...'

 

[rummo]

Worse..."cultural Marxists" as well.

I think there was even mention of having a house with two kitchens.

I mean, what sort of a person lives in a house with two kitchens?

Oh right, gotcha.

 

[two sheds]

Incidentally, someone mentioned (can't find it now) the wreath laying accusation by the Daily Mail. I've never been able to quite work out whether that demonstrated antisemitism as accused.

FactCheck: Jeremy Corbyn and the wreath row

The controversy centres on one question: did Jeremy Corbyn lay a wreath on the graves of individuals linked to the Black September terror group?

www.channel4.com