Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[platinumsage]

The writing was on the wall in his 3 minute walk of shame in 2015. That video was grade A miserable cunt, hard to imagine any other left-wing politician doing that: The question Jeremy Corbyn answers in total silence for three excruciating minutes

 

[belboid]

He would? News to me.

everything is news to you

Anyway he has got things wrong over critical national political issues, and apparently I'm wrong over whether or not I wanted people to reply to me posting clips of him debating people. Not really much equivalence there.

You haven't actually mentioned any of these 'crucial policy issues' - you've just said he's a grump/angry old man. Can you not even remember what you post?

The writing was on the wall in his 3 minute walk of shame in 2015. That video was grade A miserable cunt, hard to imagine any other left-wing politician doing that: The question Jeremy Corbyn answers in total silence for three excruciating minutes

and this is an example of that. No policy, just 'miserable cunt.' I think we can safely assume all your posts are going to be on this level, completely ignorable.

 

[platinumsage]

everything is news to you


You haven't actually mentioned any of these 'crucial policy issues' - you've just said he's a grump/angry old man. Can you not even remember what you post?

and this is an example of that. No policy, just 'miserable cunt.' I think we can safely assume all your posts are going to be on this level, completely ignorable.

That's exactly my point though, it wasn't about policy failures, it was about his personal failings in being unable to cogently advocate for those policies to enough people to win the elections. But sure, blame those nasty right-wingers.

 

[belboid]

That's exactly my point though, it wasn't about policy failures, it was about his personal failings in being unable to cogently advocate for those policies to enough people to win the elections. But sure, blame those nasty right-wingers.

Your point keeps changing. YOU talked about him getting crucial policy issues wrong. Are you just trolling cos you’re bored or are you actually that much of a brain dead fuckwit?

 

[teqniq]

FFS this is a pretty astute obeservation imo:

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

That's exactly my point though, it wasn't about policy failures, it was about his personal failings in being unable to cogently advocate for those policies to enough people to win the elections. But sure, blame those nasty right-wingers.

But it was, in fact, partly because of Brexit, partly because of baseless accusations of widespread anti-semitism in Labour, and, yes, partly, maybe even largely, because of a relentless campaign by the party’s right-wing against Corbyn and the left. Ever since Attlee’s government Labour’s right have always acted as if they would rather have a Tory government than a left-wing one. They really would. Truly despicable, nasty hypocrites.

 

[platinumsage]

Your point keeps changing. YOU talked about him getting crucial policy issues wrong. Are you just trolling cos you’re bored or are you actually that much of a brain dead fuckwit?

No, I didn't. I was responding to your sidetrack about whether I posted something or not and your assertion that unlike me, "Corbyn would have the basic decency to admit when they had got something wrong".

I said "He has got things wrong over critical national political issues..." i.e. that he didn't apologise for.

This has nothing to do with my point about why he failed to win an election and the role of polices vs his abilities. If you address my one single point rather than divert to whether I posted a particular thing or not, you might not get yourself so confused.

 

[platinumsage]

But it was, in fact, partly because of Brexit, partly because of baseless accusations of widespread anti-semitism in Labour, and, yes, partly, maybe even largely, because of a relentless campaign by the party’s right-wing against Corbyn and the left. Ever since Attlee’s government Labour’s right have always acted as if they would rather have a Tory government than a left-wing one. They really would. Truly despicable, nasty hypocrites.

And someone who wasn't a miserable and useless politician would have dealt with at least two of those quite easily.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

And someone who wasn't a miserable and useless politician would have dealt with at least two of those quite easily.

Well, nothing is going to convince you, so I’ll stop talking to you at this point and go and do something else.

 

[belboid]

No, I didn't. I was responding to your sidetrack about whether I posted something or not and your assertion that unlike me, "Corbyn would have the basic decency to admit when they had got something wrong".

I said "He has got things wrong over critical national political issues..." i.e. that he didn't apologise for.

This has nothing to do with my point about why he failed to win an election and the role of polices vs his abilities. If you address my one single point rather than divert to whether I posted a particular thing or not, you might not get yourself so confused.

Okay ‘brain dead fuckwit’ it clearly is. You dishonest and stupid little boy.

 

[platinumsage]

Is there no one on the left who can conceive of a left-wing Labour leader who might have won an election over the last five years, or were the devious right-wingers always going to be too much for anybody?

 

[teqniq]

Corbyn was the best hope in the last five years, but as has already been observed he was far too nice and nowhere near ruthless enough.

 

[belboid]

Is there no one on the left who can conceive of a left-wing Labour leader who might have won an election over the last five years, or were the devious right-wingers always going to be too much for anybody?

Fuck off

 

[platinumsage]

Fuck off

Dont you have some more anti-semitic tropes to deny?

 

[platinumsage]

Fuck off

943 pages, was it worth it: Jeremy Corbyn's time is up - post 2

 

[belboid]

Dont you have some more anti-semitic tropes to deny?

Your mask is slipping more and more you brain dead fuckwit.

 

[krtek a houby]

As I said, unlike those times, the country was ripe for a left-wing government - almost anyone could have won those voters over, it took someone like Corbyn to fail to win enough for a majority.

It took a biased press, a relentless campaign against him and the inner turmoil of the party to keep him out of government.

As for his alleged grumpiness, what did you want? Santa Claus?

 

[campanula]

Is there no one on the left who can conceive of a left-wing Labour leader who might have won an election

Erm...where were these left wing leaders. Not within the Labour Party. Or are you really thinking what a shame Liz Kendall, Angela Eagle, Tom Watson, Owen Smith, Chuka Fucking Umunna didn't defeat Corbyn? I mean, really. Seriously. Corbyn was put forward almost as a joke - a sort of token nod to the left wing LP membership...and from the minute it appeared that there actually was an overwhelming appetite for a properly left wing challenge, the whinging started...with not one single LP member offering a serious challenge to the hated status quo. The same class of people who had zero interest in any sort of redistributive politics. The same class who owned property, had never faced poverty, insecurity, prejudice. The class of people who see politics as a career opportunity, not a public service. So yep, amazingly, when someone offers up concrete policies -the only mode of attack was personal, scurrilous, spiteful, malicious denigrations of character and imaginary thought crimes. And kill me dead, I find I don't give much of a fuck about some pearl-clutching offended middle class twat with a media platform.

 

[campanula]

But what really breaks me up is, for a very short period of time, I felt that there was a chance to actually break the painfully hierarchical obsession with leadership. The idea of some absolute ruler, a king, god, emperor figure, who cannot be challenged, can never be wrong, must always and ever embody the entire hopes of a heterogenous and diverse country...or at least, that small minority which has power. Obviously, a project doomed to fail and a simplistic concept of democracy. Nope, I didn't want a 'character' or a celebrity. And, in truth, the slightly cultish 'O Jeremy Corbyn' lionisation was as disturbing to me as the celebrity status of Trump and Johnson.
And true, Corbyn has neither the aptitude nor the ruthlessness to become this sort of figure...which I sorta hoped would lead to an evolving dialogue with many voices. A politics which was based on policies, not Twitter statements or journalistic fictions. A politics which was really based on fair principles (because ordinary people had a representative voice and even a chance to be part of a politics which was not totally dictated by top-down thinking, Not brass neck and an ability to lie and not give a shit. (yes, naive, I know...)...but Corbyn's core principles - to defend the underdog - was a powerful invitation for people like me to feel that the parliamentary system was not irredeemably fucked up (I was wrong).

 

[stethoscope]

The reality is that people like platinumsage want the status quo, they're invested in keeping electoral politics as it is, despite dressing up their criticisms in a hundred different ways. Whatever person gets wheeled out 'for the left' for Labour, it'll never be 'right' for them and the opposition will go into overdrive. Labour for me personally are a dead end, but some of the 'reasons' being trotted out these last few pages are just pathetic - regardless of any criticisms/deficits of Corbyn and the Corbyn project, it clearly energised both old and new voters in a way not seen in Labour politics for years, and offered a glimpse of something different. As an observer, this clearly did set in all manner of panic amongst the right, the media, and establishment, and down to parts of the Labour party itself. And the opposition machine swung into full motion to derail everything it could. To try and dismiss this just makes people look silly, especially when it comes from whining Labour 'supporters' from the centre and right.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Is there no one on the left who can conceive of a left-wing Labour leader who might have won an election over the last five years, or were the devious right-wingers always going to be too much for anybody?

No. I can’t think of one. Can you?

Corbyn had myriad shortcomings. Most of which have been debated on here. McDonnell would probably have made a better fist of it in communication and policy terms, but who else are you thinking about?

I’d also suggest you might want to think about the institutional, cultural and historical realities that would confront any genuine social democratic project In Britain. The idea that Labour electing this mysterious figure could simply overcome these is fanciful.

40 years of a social democratic post war project that was eventually overwhelmed and then reconstructed as an absolute failure, a dark period never to be returned to. The Thatcherite ‘sick man of Europe’ spectre that still weighs in discourse. Layered upon that 40 years of neo-liberalism that destroyed social institutions and collective resources. A project of the self. Then a disoriented left turn away from privileging class as a category of experience, analysis and unity. Finally, there is the not inconsiderable balance of forces in the PLP and a professional middle class hostile to any deep redistributive project from day one. Oh, and let’s not forget Brexit.

That’s the starting point. So yes, Corbyn was massively flawed. But you’d need to explain how your mysterious leader would have navigated all of the above. So over to you....

 

[teqniq]

'Scuse the fail link....but yeah, blackmail.

 

[Threshers_Flail]

'Scuse the fail link....but yeah, blackmail.

What are they threatening? Could you tell us as I don't want to click that link to find out.

 

[two sheds]

I'm sure they could agree on a suitable form of words to the effect that they actually had no valid claim

 

[teqniq]

What are they threatening? Could you tell us as I don't want to click that link to find out.

Haha nor did I, but the gist of it is, I believe that the people who are pursuing damages claims concerning the leaked Labour report are prepared to drop their claims if Corbyn is expelled. One can only hope the whole sordid unpleasantness blows up in their faces.

 

[two sheds]

ah expelled, twats

Eta: of course it being a mail article is likely to be a load of bollocks but if true you'd hope that would be approaching abuse of process.

 

[bellaozzydog]

The reality is that people like platinumsage want the status quo, they're invested in keeping electoral politics as it is, despite dressing up their criticisms in a hundred different ways. Whatever person gets wheeled out 'for the left' for Labour, it'll never be 'right' for them and the opposition will go into overdrive. Labour for me personally are a dead end, but some of the 'reasons' being trotted out these last few pages are just pathetic - regardless of any criticisms/deficits of Corbyn and the Corbyn project, it clearly energised both old and new voters in a way not seen in Labour politics for years, and offered a glimpse of something different. As an observer, this clearly did set in all manner of panic amongst the right, the media, and establishment, and down to parts of the Labour party itself. And the opposition machine swung into full motion to derail everything it could. To try and dismiss this just makes people look silly, especially when it comes from whining Labour 'supporters' from the centre and right.

you give the daft twat way too much credit, he is just churning out opinions given to him

 

[teqniq]

Haha nor did I, but the gist of it is, I believe that the people who are pursuing damages claims concerning the leaked Labour report are prepared to drop their claims if Corbyn is expelled. One can only hope the whole sordid unpleasantness blows up in their faces.

For anyone curious and, like me reluctant to visit the fail site more on the story from Zelo St.

Let’s Play Labour Blackmail!

The whole premise of the legendary Monty Python sketch titled simply “ Blackmail ” is that it’s all a bit furtive - “ Blackmail, behind the...

zelo-street.blogspot.com

 

[Pickman's model]

No. I can’t think of one. Can you?

Corbyn had myriad shortcomings. Most of which have been debated on here. McDonnell would probably have made a better fist of it in communication and policy terms, but who else are you thinking about?

I’d also suggest you might want to think about the institutional, cultural and historical realities that would confront any genuine social democratic project In Britain. The idea that Labour electing this mysterious figure could simply overcome these is fanciful.

40 years of a social democratic post war project that was eventually overwhelmed and then reconstructed as an absolute failure, a dark period never to be returned to. The Thatcherite ‘sick man of Europe’ spectre that still weighs in discourse. Layered upon that 40 years of neo-liberalism that destroyed social institutions and collective resources. A project of the self. Then a disoriented left turn away from privileging class as a category of experience, analysis and unity. Finally, there is the not inconsiderable balance of forces in the PLP and a professional middle class hostile to any deep redistributive project from day one. Oh, and let’s not forget Brexit.

That’s the starting point. So yes, Corbyn was massively flawed. But you’d need to explain how your mysterious leader would have navigated all of the above. So over to you....

It's wicked to mock the afflicted

 

[bellaozzydog]

Just had my gofundme Corbyn donation returned

just put it back in and doubled it, used my own name this time rather than a comedy blue tick name