Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[oryx]

That’s how this detour started. I thought we were still on it. But fair enough.


She’s literally a privy councillor.

I know, I know...but her background (along with other female, BAME and non-privileged MPs) does make her different from the likes of Johnson, Cameron etc. etc. As long as we have roles like privy councillor et al, it is only right that people from non-privileged backgrounds should gain access to these roles - I am aware you're not necessarily arguing for that not to be the case.

Depends what you call the establishment, though. Probably merits a thread. Which I'm not planning to start .

 

[danny la rouge]

As long as we have roles like privy councillor et al, it is only right that people from non-privileged backgrounds should gain access to these roles.

I remain to be convinced that the mere fact of Diane Abbott being a privy councillor in itself makes anything at all better for women or PoC who are in low paid jobs. That’s what I’d argue.

 

[oryx]

I remain to be convinced that the mere fact of Diane Abbott being a privy councillor in itself makes anything at all better for women or PoC who are in low paid jobs.

It doesn't, unless you count the aspiration/role model aspect. And the issue of aspiration in itself is, like the establishment, probably something for another thread/debate.

 

[danny la rouge]

It doesn't, unless you count the aspiration/role model aspect. And the issue of aspiration in itself is, like the establishment, probably something for another thread/debate.

You’ve raised two interesting topics that you don’t want to start a thread on. Not that I blame you.

 

[oryx]

You’ve raised two interesting topics that you don’t want to start a thread on. Not that I blame you.

 

[Pickman's model]

I remain to be convinced that the mere fact of Diane Abbott being a privy councillor in itself makes anything at all better for women or PoC who are in low paid jobs. That’s what I’d argue.

she's not done much for education in hackney in 22 years as mp for hackney north and stoke newington

 

[chilango]

You’ve raised two interesting topics that you don’t want to start a thread on. Not that I blame you.

I think they'd be good threads oryx

 

[Pickman's model]

I think they'd be good threads oryx

seconded oryx

 

[oryx]

Maybe tonight when I get back from my mate's birthday do slightly pissed and in the mood.

 

[butchersapron]

Do people who are born outside of the establishment never become members of that establishment through things like attending the establishments universities and other privilege producers/transmitters and then spending the rest of their life in the heart of the establishments political institutions and playing a prominent role in it's ideological/culture arm? Is sponsored mobility not a thing and is its intention not to draw working class people into defence of the establishment - just by existing, as an example of the system working or more overtly in open ideological support of elite dominance and privilege.

Or is that all seen as a bit untrendy 70s sociology now?

 

[treelover]

Ken Clarke is an example.

 

[brogdale]

FT reading our thread?

 

[brogdale]

FT reading our thread?

View attachment 187847

Not so shabby a prediction, thus far.

btw, just checked and 2/3 of those LP MPs who voted for a 2nd reading of Johnson's WAB happened to vote for (arch-remainer) Owen Smith in the 2016 Leadership election.

 

[Teaboy]

I don't really understand this. The bill would have to still go through its readings by which time in will likely be amended to a point that the government could no longer accept it. No?

 

[brogdale]

I don't really understand this. The bill would have to still go through its readings by which time in will likely be amended to a point that the government could no longer accept it. No?

That assumes that Johnson has a principled approach to Brexit.

 

[Teaboy]

That assumes that Johnson has a principled approach to Brexit.

I don't think Johnson has a principled approach to anything beyond the self, if you can call that a principle.

I'm still not sure what you're getting at. Are you suggesting its all just a ruse for a no deal / drop out? Otherwise how can he get the bill passed for Brexit to happen without it going through the various stages?

 

[brogdale]

I don't think Johnson has a principled approach to anything beyond the self, if you can call that a principle.

I'm still not sure what you're getting at. Are you suggesting its all just a ruse for a no deal / drop out? Otherwise how can he get the bill passed for Brexit to happen without it going through the various stages?

He can't, but he'll take whatever outcome because it will be *Brexit*

 

[andysays]

He can't, but he'll take whatever outcome because it will be *Brexit*

But if significant amendments are made to the bill as it progresses, it will no longer be the deal agreed with the EU, so I can't see how that's going to fly...

 

[brogdale]

But if significant amendments are made to the bill as it progresses, it will no longer be the deal agreed with the EU, so I can't see how that's going to fly...

Depends what the amendments are; if Barnier is confronted with amendments that ---> a softer Brexit with more integration, he'd recommend to the 27 pdq

 

[treelover]

Amount of people say it should be Starmer as leader is incredible, but wouldn't he have been just business as usual.

 

[agricola]

Amount of people say it should be Starmer as leader is incredible, but wouldn't he have been just business as usual.

He'd be a terrible leader, but I am not sure he would be a bad alternate PM.

 

[treelover]

Do you think he may be next leader or will it be one of Corbyns chosen.
Many in LP say it must be a woman, Long Bailey?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Labour won't change leader. There's been a few goes already and they didn't work then.

It's a massively stupid idea at this point and would mean they'd be pretty much guaranteed to lose any election, too, but that wouldn't stop certain people trying. It does make it even less likely though.

 

[Badgers]

Amount of people say it should be Starmer as leader is incredible, but wouldn't he have been just business as usual.

If people think Corbyn is lacking in 'leadership' then Labour will be fucked with Starmer. He is a decent politician but no leader.

 

[treelover]

Sam Tarry is one to watch in future, i think he came form the student protests, not even MP yet though, longlisted

 

[Mr Moose]

Do you think he may be next leader or will it be one of Corbyns chosen.
Many in LP say it must be a woman, Long Bailey?

She would give an immediate poll bounce.

 

[Mr Moose]

Labour won't change leader. There's been a few goes already and they didn't work then.

It's a massively stupid idea at this point and would mean they'd be pretty much guaranteed to lose any election, too, but that wouldn't stop certain people trying. It does make it even less likely though.

I underestimated how well Corbyn would do last time, or maybe how badly May would do. But it is very hard to see him as successful this time, let alone winning.

It may be too late to do it now, but politics can be very superficial. A new leader could offer a massive boost to Labour’s fortunes.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Sam Tarry is one to watch in future, i think he came form the student protests, not even MP yet though, longlisted

He's PPC for Ilford South (Mike Gapes seat), seen it earlier

 

[Sue]

She would give an immediate poll bounce.

Why do you think that? Does anyone even know who she is? (I just looked her up because I didn’t.)

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Why do you think that? Does anyone even know who she is? (I just looked her up because I didn’t.)

Good question.

She’s appears competent, a bit technocratic and dull to me.