Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Rivendelboy]

Some of them undoubtedly are. My jibe wasn't. Her innumeracy (or general buffoonery) doesn't really bother me as much as her hypocrisy.

one (i'm not aware of others) instance of misremembering is hardly innumeracy. This is gaslighting

 

[maomao]

My mum accused me of racism for criticising Abbot the other day (for featuring on a website that I was citing as an example of negative ID politics). I'll happily defend her from racists but I'll also happily attack her for being an over privileged hypocrite.

 

[ignatious]

'cos nobody picks up on that?

One’s the British PM and the other is the US president. How do you rate Diane Abbott’s chances of reaching the same heights?

If Athos had said Trump or Johnson, would the joke have had the same impact? If not, why not? Do you think the racist tropes mentioned by Jeff Robinson have an influence in that?

It beggars belief that people can’t see where the discomfort comes from here.

 

[Athos]

one (i'm not aware of others) instance of misremembering is hardly innumeracy. This is gaslighting

It's not the misremebering so much as the apparent inability to do very simple mental arithmetic. But, as I've already said, that's not what my issue with her is; it's just an easy thing to poke fun at her for (similar, say, to how I'd criticise Boris for being a womaniser).

 

[redsquirrel]

It really isn't. Equating of a (shit) joke directed at a political figure on a medium sized bulletin board with psychological abuse is silly (at best) (at the gaslighting comment above)

One’s the British PM and the other is the US president. How do you rate Diane Abbott’s chances of reaching the same heights?

She's the Shadow Home Sec for pete's sake. She's been an MP for 30+ years, and held numerous shadow cabinet positions, she's deeply embedded in the political establishment. She probably won't make PM but Unmunna was cited as a potential PM (if by breathless commentators rather than those with any sense), are we not allowed to slag of that prick? What about Jo Swinson, Ruth Davidson? Of course they are systematically discriminated against because of their race/sex/gender but that does not mean that they should not be slagged off.


Obama got a load of racist shit thrown his way that does not mean that he should get a free pass on giving talks to a load of bankers in return for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

[Supine]

There may be some truth in that. But, I don't remember an instance of so senior a politician getting something so basic so wrong (by orders of magnitude), so publicly and so cringe-makingly.

wasn’t it a diabetes attack that took her off piste? Not really fair to judge if that was the case.

 

[Athos]

One’s the British PM and the other is the US president. How do you rate Diane Abbott’s chances of reaching the same heights?

If Athos had said Trump or Johnson, would the joke have had the same impact? If not, why not? Do you think the racist tropes mentioned by Jeff Robinson have an influence in that?

It beggars belief that people can’t see where the discomfort comes from here.

Of course people can see where it comes from, an identity politics perversion of an otherwise noble position i.e. anti racism.

 

[Athos]

wasn’t it a diabetes attack that took her off piste? Not really fair to judge if that was the case.

I don't know. Though I'm not predisposed to believing politicians excuses.

 

[cantsin]

Remember all those posts about Jess Phillips saying she knocked on 25,000 doors in six weeks? No?

Had to laugh at Ian Bone / Lisa McKenzie getting all giddy about w/c hero Jess Phillips recently - frothing anti ID Pol wannabe class warriors losing their marbles nowadays, end up on same side as racists / centrists / whatever as long as they can bash Lab left, while doing / achieving f.a themselves. as per

 

[redsquirrel]

Had to laugh at Ian Bone / Lisa McKenzie getting all giddy about w/c hero Jess Phillips recently - frothing anti ID Pol wannabe class warriors losing their marbles nowadays, end up on same side as racists / centrists / whatever as long as they can bash Lab left, while doing / achieving f.a themselves. as per

FFS are you seriously claiming that IB and LM are "on same side as racists / centrists"?

Absolutely pathetic. Frankly you could not find a better example than the above of why those of us that cautioned joining the LP were right - you end up aligning with shite like Phillips against Class War.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Who both gets loads of flak (some clever, some crap) over countless actions.

I'm with Danny. Yes Abbott gets a lot of misogynistic and racist crap thrown her way, I'll even agree that Athos's joke was pretty weak but that should not stop people taking the piss out of wanker politicians.

I didn’t say Trump and Johnson are not mocked I was responding to Athos’ risible claim that he couldn’t remember the last time a senior politician had said something so cringy. In response, he qualified the statement by adding ‘and getting a free ride’.

And nobody has said that Abbott shouldn’t be taken the piss of for anything, merely that taking the piss out of her for something that was the basis for a racist and misogynist harassment campaign and that has clear and obvious links to broader racist and misogynist tropes about black women is perhaps not the best way to go.

 

[cantsin]

FFS are you seriously claiming that IB and LM are "on same side as racists / centrists"?

Absolutely pathetic. Frankly you could not find a better example than the above of why those of us that cautioned joining the LP were right - you end up aligning with shite like Phillips against Class War.

You’ve lost me - it was LM / IB siding with Phillips vs Corbyn / Lab Left ?

 

[redsquirrel]

You’ve lost me - it was LM / IB siding with Phillips vs Corbyn / Lab Left ?

I don't follow twitter so I don't know the specific incident you are talking about but regardless the general point stands if you are putting Class War activists in the same box as racists/centrists then your politics have gone to shot.

 

[killer b]

Presume he's talking about this - McKenzie et al have put themselves in that box tbf

Not sure where else to put this. Incredible stuff. The brain worms seem to be infecting everyone.

 

[binka]

I'm sure not everyone who makes that joke about Abbott fucking up the numbers is a racist, but enough racists do make that joke that I wouldn't want to be associated with it myself

 

[Athos]

I didn’t say Trump and Johnson are not mocked I was responding to Athos’ risible claim that he couldn’t remember the last time a senior politician had said something so cringy. In response, he qualified the statement by adding ‘and getting a free ride’.

And nobody has said that Abbott shouldn’t be taken the piss of for anything, merely that taking the piss out of her for something that was the basis for a racist and misogynist harassment campaign and that has clear and obvious links to broader racist and misogynist tropes about black women is perhaps not the best way to go.

Racists also use her hypocrisy to attack her. Should we let that ride?

 

[cantsin]

I don't follow twitter so I don't know the specific incident you are talking about but regardless the general point stands if you are putting Class War activists in the same box as racists/centrists then your politics have gone to shot.

the state of this : LM joining in / cosying up with the grossly dishonest bollocks spouted by Phillips etc that any critique of zombie blairites is always due to ... misogyny/ anti semitism / homophobia etc etc - embarrassing stuff for LM, but no real surprise any moe

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Racists also use her hypocrisy to attack her. Should we let that ride?

C’mon Athos, surely you can figure out for yourself why that’s a shit argument?

 

[redsquirrel]

Presume he's talking about this - McKenzie et al have put themselves in that box tbf

Ta.
I'm not going to defend those tweets, they are frankly embarrassing and both IB and LM deserve some flack for them but that does not justify this crap "end up on same side as racists / centrists / whatever as long as they can bash Lab left, while doing / achieving f.a themselves. as per". Whatever your criticisms of them both IB and LM have done plenty.

 

[Athos]

C’mon Athos, surely you can figure out for yourself why that’s a shit argument?

Can you spell it out?

 

[andysays]

I don't know. Though I'm not predisposed to believing politicians excuses.

Depends what we're talking about. I'm more likely to believe her explanation that a few examples of confusion were down to undiagnosed diabetes than her excuses for sending her son to private school, for instance

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Can you spell it out?

There are no significant racist tropes associating black people with hypocrisy, but there are with low intelligence/illiteracy/innumeracy.

 

[killer b]

Ta.
I'm not going to defend those tweets, they are frankly embarrassing and both IB and LM deserve some flack for them but that does not justify this crap "end up on same side as racists / centrists / whatever as long as they can bash Lab left, while doing / achieving f.a themselves. as per". Whatever your criticisms of them both IB and LM have done plenty.

McKenzie sometimes writes with great insight, but she also - increasingly ime - ends up down the kind of prolier than thou WC gatekeeping dead ends that we rightfully criticise when people do it here.

 

[Athos]

There are no significant racist tropes associating black people with hypocrisy, but there are with low intelligence/illiteracy/innumeracy.

Ok, so where does that leave us in instances where black people display, say, innumeracy? Can we as non-racists criticise it?

 

[Athos]

Depends what we're talking about. I'm more likely to believe her explanation that a few examples of confusion were down to undiagnosed diabetes than her excuses for sending her son to private school, for instance

She didn't claim it was undiagnosed.

 

[cantsin]

I'm sure not everyone who makes that joke about Abbott fucking up the numbers is a racist, but enough racists do make that joke that I wouldn't want to be associated with it myself

Egg fecking xactly , shldnt even need to be said tbh

 

[Athos]

I'm sure not everyone who makes that joke about Abbott fucking up the numbers is a racist, but enough racists do make that joke that I wouldn't want to be associated with it myself

That's fine. I'm in the group of people who make that joke that aren't racist, and you're in the group who wouldn't want to be associated with it. There's no argument there.

 

[redsquirrel]

McKenzie sometimes writes with great insight, but she also - increasingly ime - ends up down the kind of prolier than thou WC gatekeeping dead ends that we rightfully criticise when people do it here.

I'll take your word for it. Like I said I don't really follow twitter (and the above nonsense reinforces my belief that that is probably a good thing). I think all the LM stuff I've come across has been longer pieces.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Ok, so where does that leave us in instances where black people display, say, innumeracy? Can we criticise it?

It’s a pretty cuntish thing to make fun of whoever makes the error tbh - it’s elitist and ableist shite - the cuntishness is especially compounded when it’s a black woman.

 

[Athos]

It’s a pretty cuntish thing to criticise whoever makes the error tbh, the cuntishness is especially compounded when it’s a black woman.

Putting aside the question of whether it's compounded by race, why is it cuntish per se to use their innumeracy to poke fun at an oxbridge-educated career politician who is a hypocrite?