Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[SpackleFrog]

Why the assumption that texts and history aren't part of the evidence? Is history not evidence based in itself?

Not to them fuckers.

 

[Treacle Toes]

It's absolutely right to hold politicians on our own side to higher standards than those of our enemies. That's the whole fucking point isn't it? That we have higher standards?

Hopefully this means not using McCarthy-like tactics too?

 

[Pickman's model]

It's absolutely right to hold politicians on our own side to higher standards than those of our enemies. That's the whole fucking point isn't it? That we have higher standards?

in the same way our police are the best in the world and we don't have a political police like they do in those nasty foreign places

 

[Poi E]

Free Julian Assange

 

[teuchter]

Not to them fuckers.

I believe this is what they call circular reasoning.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I believe this is what they call circular reasoning.

That's how they get you.

 

[Balbi]

Why the assumption that texts and history aren't part of the evidence? Is history not evidence based in itself?

Ah yes but these texts promote ideologies and Change UK are beyond ideology

 

[Pickman's model]

Ah yes but these texts promote ideologies and Change UK are beyond ideology

Also chuk beyond parody

 

[Smokeandsteam]

This is another good article by Larry Elliott over at The Guardian. It’s a good explainer of social democracy and what it does - “save capitalism from itself” - through the type of programme McDonnell and Labour have advanced. It also explore the consequences of an ongoing bifurcation that has occurred between state intervention and the economy under neo-liberal orthodoxy

The demise of the middle classes is toxifying British politics | Larry Elliott

 

[sleaterkinney]

That and labour being ahead in the polls. Which, by your metrics, means a great job is being done and he needs to stay.

This has aged well, hasn't it?.

 

[SpackleFrog]

This has aged well, hasn't it?.

Well, Labour are clearly ahead in the polls and the Tories are in meltdown soooooo...yes?

 

[butchersapron]

This has aged well, hasn't it?.

In what sense?

And if the polls have changed that is is the point of highlighting your chosen metric. Did you wash your mouth out after the 2017 election? When other polls and results appeared? When Corbyn and labour were doing great (which they still are). No you did not. And you did because you have no understanding of the dynamics of politics - instead seeing a seconds snap shot as true forever, and because you choose a snapshot at the worst time for your enemy as what is to be true forever. This is just juvenile. It's not politics.

 

[treelover]

I’ve left the Labour Party after nearly 45 years of service at Branch, Constituency and NEC levels,partly because of it’s continued duplicity on Brexit, partly because of it’s antisemitism, but also because its leadership is complete shit.

Tony Robinson resigns
from Labour, CHUK?

 

[TopCat]

Horrible cunt he is.

 

[sleaterkinney]

In what sense?

And if the polls have changed that is is the point of highlighting your chosen metric. Did you wash your mouth out after the 2017 election? When other polls and results appeared? When Corbyn and labour were doing great (which they still are). No you did not. And you did because you have no understanding of the dynamics of politics - instead seeing a seconds snap shot as true forever, and because you choose a snapshot at the worst time for your enemy as what is to be true forever. This is just juvenile. It's not politics.

Corbyn and Labour are not doing great, they're losing seats at a time when the Tories are in crisis.

 

[Sprocket.]

Tony Robinson resigns
from Labour, CHUK?

Sounds like a cunning plan!

 

[butchersapron]

Corbyn and Labour are not doing great, they're losing seats at a time when the Tories are in crisis.

They are doing good, better than their main opponents. But, more to the point - they were doing terribly well before - somehow this didn't translate into the reverse of your argument. You of course have also idea of the british council seats cycle and why it matters. You have no idea what any of the things happening here mean.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

This is another good article by Larry Elliott over at The Guardian. It’s a good explainer of social democracy and what it does - “save capitalism from itself” - through the type of programme McDonnell and Labour have advanced. It also explore the consequences of an ongoing bifurcation that has occurred between state intervention and the economy under neo-liberal orthodoxy

The demise of the middle classes is toxifying British politics | Larry Elliott

With a title like that it could have gone either way but glad to see that it is generally about increasing inequality and the mechanisms by which that is happening.

Still have some problems with it though:

1. he draws parallels to politics which aren't justified and seem to come more from liberal assumptions about what the politics of a healthy society look like and illusions about what previous parties did, as well as a political compass type understanding of opinion. "It has also hollowed out the middle of politics" - what does this mean? That people are less likely to support those who increasingly obvious have fucked them over? Is this bad or unreasonable?

2. I don't really like the phrase "hollowing out" even if the process it describes is true. It suggests that there's been a reduction right in the middle, more poor people but also more rich people, rather than the real result, which is more poor people and richer rich people.

 

[sleaterkinney]

They are doing good, better than their main opponents. But, more to the point - they were doing terribly well before - somehow this didn't translate into the reverse of your argument. You of course have also idea of the british council seats cycle and why it matters. You have no idea what any of the things happening here mean.

I would say that the turmoil over brexit means this isn't a normal british council seats cycle and they should be picking up seats not losing them.

 

[butchersapron]

I would say that the turmoil over brexit means this isn't a normal british council seats cycle and they should be picking up seats not losing them.

You would would you? Why would you? And what did you say when they were expected to lose seats and massively outperformed all predictions?

 

[Smokeandsteam]

With a title like that it could have gone either way but glad to see that it is generally about increasing inequality and the mechanisms by which that is happening.

Still have some problems with it though:

1. he draws parallels to politics which aren't justified and seem to come more from liberal assumptions about what the politics of a healthy society look like and illusions about what previous parties did, as well as a political compass type understanding of opinion. "It has also hollowed out the middle of politics" - what does this mean? That people are less likely to support those who increasingly obvious have fucked them over? Is this bad or unreasonable?

2. I don't really like the phrase "hollowing out" even if the process it describes is true. It suggests that there's been a reduction right in the middle, more poor people but also more rich people, rather than the real result, which is more poor people and richer rich people.

I didn’t post it to start a discussion about social democracy per se. It was more to locate Corbyn/McDonnell’s economic plan on a political continuum.

I also don’t like the concept of a squeezed middle. It’s more a case of a downward pressure on the key measures of economic ‘middle class’ status - wages, education, disposable income etc. Plus the near total collapse of upward movement from the WC to the MC through education and due to meritocracy.

The real value of the article is a) an excellent illustration of what social democracy does and why it was one allowed, and even valued, by capital, b) to illustrate how far we’ve travelled away from the idea of state action to mediate the excess of capitalism and c) to suggest the extent of where labourist social democracy could (usefully) take us back to

 

[bellaozzydog]

When will Jess Philips just fuck off




That is all

 

[killer b]

Tony Robinson resigns
from Labour, CHUK?

Who gives a fuck.

 

[butchersapron]

I would say that the turmoil over brexit means this isn't a normal british council seats cycle and they should be picking up seats not losing them.

And what will you say when the labour vote holds up and the brexit party wins the euros? You have nowhere left to go.

 

[sleaterkinney]

And what will you say when the labour vote holds up and the brexit party wins the euros? You have nowhere left to go.

Why do you think it is going to hold up given what's happened?.

 

[Badgers]

Tony Robinson resigns
from Labour, CHUK?

I guess all Labour Party members will stand shoulder to sboddr with this millionaire.

 

[butchersapron]

Why do you think it is going to hold up given what's happened?.

I asked you whether you had been consistent in your views and if you intend to be consistent in the future. It appears not in both cases,

 

[sleaterkinney]

I didn't argue that it would. I asked you whether you had been consistent in your views and if you intend to be consistent in the future. It appears not in both cases,

So you're just asking me what I would do if something hypothetically happened in the future?. Let me look into my crystal ball.
I've been consistent in my opposition to Corbyn and the party is being punished for his lack of leadership on Brexit.

 

[butchersapron]

So you're just asking me what I would do if something hypothetically happened in the future?. Let me look into my crystal ball.
I've been consistent in my opposition to Corbyn and the party is being punished for his lack of leadership on Brexit.

You've been utterly inconsistent in that you have argued that bad polls and election results show how shit he is and why he needs to go whilst keeping zip when there are good polls and election results. You are utterly hoist by your own petard.

As i said yesterday, this is juvenile snapshot stuff with no understanding of the wider socio-political dynamics in general and as regards this country specifically. In this consistency lies your idiocy.

 

[Pickman's model]

Tony Robinson resigns
from Labour, CHUK?

If he's against parties with completely shit leaderships then he's not joining anyone