Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Santino]

Bring back Lionel Blue.

 

[Shechemite]

Bring back Lionel Blue.

He was never the chief rabbi sadly

 

[Gramsci]

At my local university, a Friends of Palestine event for Israel Apartheid Week was cancelled by the uni for this reason.

I don't think there can be any doubt this kind of chilling is happening tbh. Risk averse or jobsworth administrators, faced with pressure or a not-very-in-depth knowledge of the guidelines have cancelled events citing the guidelines, and are likely to do so more now.

The day after NEC decision I heard Margaret Hodge and Shami Chakrabarti being interviewed on Radio 4 in morning. Chakrabarti was asked about criticising Israel/ anti semitism issue and she evaded the question. Hodge said the NEC decision was just the start. So anyone who thinks this is end of it is unfortunately wrong.

I felt that after listening to this that now NEC has agreed the examples as well as definition push now will be to define any criticism of Israel as anti Semitic.

Im not criticising NEC just saying that this is what Hodge wants in practice.

Went to read this top QC opinion from Matrix chambers after that radio interview.


Counsel's opinion on the IHRA definition - Free Speech on Israel

Commissioned by PSC and other groups. Specifically related to Universities.

The section related to your post is point 22.


A number of examples of conduct which have been criticised as antisemitic have been suggested in various publications. These include:

Describing Israel as a state enacting policies of apartheid.
Describing Israel as a state practising settler colonialism.
Describing the establishment of the State of Israel and the actions associated with its establishment, as illegal or illegitimate.
Campaigning for policies of boycott divestment or sanctions against Israel, Israeli companies or international companies complicit in violation of Palestinian human rights (unless the campaigner was also calling for similar actions against other states).
Stating that the State of Israel and its defenders “use” the Holocaust to chill debate on Israel’s own behaviour towards Palestinians.

In my view, none of these statements or activities could, of themselves, be properly described as antisemitic. I do not think that any of them, without more (that is, without evidence of “hatred towards Jews”), fall within the terms of the IHRA Definition. If an event were to be banned by a university or other public authority on the grounds that such views were being expressed by the organisers or by speakers on a panel then, without more, such a ban would in my view be unlawful

Reading his whole opinion Im really disturbed by this. He quotes case law. As you point out it's easier for jobsworth to not allow meeting. I have a lot of sympathy for them. The fact that case law is quoted means that unless one is prepared to argue case in front of legal institutions this IHRA plus examples will have chilling effect. Which is exactly what Hodge wants.

 

[Pickman's model]

The day after NEC decision I heard Margaret Hodge and Shami Chakrabarti being interviewed on Radio 4 in morning. Chakrabarti was asked about criticising Israel/ anti semitism issue and she evaded the question. Hodge said the NEC decision was just the start. So anyone who thinks this is end of it is unfortunately wrong.

I felt that after listening to this that now NEC has agreed the examples as well as definition push now will be to define any criticism of Israel as anti Semitic.

Im not criticising NEC just saying that this is what Hodge wants in practice.

Went to read this top QC opinion from Matrix chambers after that radio interview.


Counsel's opinion on the IHRA definition - Free Speech on Israel

Commissioned by PSC and other groups. Specifically related to Universities.

The section related to your post is point 23.


A number of examples of conduct which have been criticised as antisemitic have been suggested in various publications. These include:


Reading his whole opinion Im really disturbed by this. He quotes case law. As you point out it's easier for jobsworth to not allow meeting. I have a lot of sympathy for them. The fact that case law is quoted means that unless one is prepared to argue case in front of legal institutions this IHRA plus examples will have chilling effect. Which is exactly what Hodge wants.

This is margaret hodge, the paedophiles' friend?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Off the top of my head, Barnett council are trying to outlaw BDS using the IHRA definition.

Barnet Tory Council: Outlaw BDS, Make BDSM compulsory.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Bring back Lionel Blue.

Not sure that Auntie would employ Lionel nowadays, what with him being left-liberal and unafraid of pointing out acts of hypocrisy.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is margaret hodge, the paedophiles' friend?

Yep, the same person who almost lost her constituency to the BNP because she couldn't be arsed to bother being a halfway-decent constituency MP. Fortunately for her, loads of Labour and non-Labour canvassers from all over the effing country canvassed her constituency to fuck, and stopped Old One Eye's shitcunts getting a foot in the door - well, more of a foot than having a handful of cllrs there, anyway.

Margaret Hodge, what a rank cunt, and she's only got ranker with age.

 

[killer b]

Hodge ended up with a majority of 8000 in 2005, I'm sure it wouldn't have been that high without the groundwork the canvassers put in, but it's a bit of a stretch to say she almost lost Barking.

 

[andysays]

I see from the BBC website that Blair has been dissing Corbyn again (on phone so can't link)

 

[danny la rouge]

I see from the BBC website that Blair has been dissing Corbyn again (on phone so can't link)

Also on phone, but link here:

Tony Blair doubts Labour can be 'taken back by moderates' Blair doubts Labour can be 'taken back'

 

[DotCommunist]

of course theres a radio prog called 'the long march of corbyns labour'

see what they've done there eh

 

[Peter Chadwick]

Also on phone, but link here:

Tony Blair doubts Labour can be 'taken back by moderates' Blair doubts Labour can be 'taken back'

Blair should stay out of this. Yes Corbyn is incompetent. But Blair is yesterday's man and is hated by many on the left.

 

[redsquirrel]

Also on phone, but link here:

Tony Blair doubts Labour can be 'taken back by moderates' Blair doubts Labour can be 'taken back'

Amazing how Corbyn's mild social-democracy has become "fringe". Like those crazy radicals Eden, MacMillian, Heath, etc

 

[Santino]

Blair should stay out of this. Yes Corbyn is incompetent. But Blair is yesterday's man and is hated by many on the left.

Hello Peter

 

[andysays]

Also on phone, but link here:

Show off

 

[danny la rouge]

Amazing how Corbyn's mild social-democracy has become "fringe". Like those crazy radicals Eden, MacMillian, Heath, etc

Precisely. Corbyn is proposing far less public ownership than the Post War Consensus Tory governments presided over. Does this mean we have to call Ted Heath "Red" Heath?

 

[Pickman's model]

Blair should stay out of this. Yes Corbyn is incompetent. But Blair is yesterday's man and is hated by many on the left.

There's a lot of people elsewhere who dislike him too

 

[DotCommunist]

I see Joan Ryan is taking the loss of confidence well. lol.

 

[Gramsci]

Heard Blair this morning, " Corbyn is an existential threat to Labour".

 

[Pickman's model]

Heard Blair this morning, " Corbyn is an existential threat to Labour".

tbh i'm astonished labour have recovered any ground after the sewage that was the labour government from 1997-2010.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Precisely. Corbyn is proposing far less public ownership than the Post War Consensus Tory governments presided over. Does this mean we have to call Ted Heath "Red" Heath?

I've just been reading an essay by Stuart Holland on the Alternative Economic Strategy and the debate within Wilson's cabinet (remember - awful 'sell out' Labour Government etc) and the NEC. At the heart of the strategy was the PRINCIPLE of an economy, in part, managed by the state. Labour would take a controlling interest in a large player in each of the strategically key industries in Britain. This would allow the state to directly intervene in the market via planning agreements, to resist job losses from imports, to locate jobs in areas of high unemployment and to strategically direct the economy and investment (via a National Enterprise Board).

At the time this was watered down, creating a massive battle within Labour, but the point here is to demonstrate how far we've come when Corbyn's extremely limited programme is unfairly labelled as 'radical' or 'left wing'. It's nothing of the sort.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Amazing how Corbyn's mild social-democracy has become "fringe". Like those crazy radicals Eden, MacMillian, Heath, etc

It's not 'amazing' but anyone who wants to understand the last 60 years could do worse than look at the economic plans of the respective parties to understand how radically neo liberalism has become embedded since Heath etc. The IPPR report this week indicates that it is beginning to run out of road at last but we face a long way back to even limited social democracy.

 

[killer b]

Interesting twitter thread here from a decent polling dude regarding the enduring strength of tribal loyalty as a factor in Labour's polling / vote share

 

[Kaka Tim]

Was Blair challenged in this interview when he said that corbyn is an "existential threat" to the labour party? Like - by stating the obvious facts like the biggest increase in vote share since 1945 and huge increase in membership?

 

[mojo pixy]

On the BBC? As if.

 

[belboid]

Joan Ryan (no, me neither) whinging about losing a vote of no confidence - blaming it all on trots, communists and stalinists.
Labour 'moderate' MP loses vote of no confidence from local members

 

[gosub]

Was Blair challenged in this interview when he said that corbyn is an "existential threat" to the labour party? Like - by stating the obvious facts like the biggest increase in vote share since 1945 and huge increase in membership?

Radio 6 news just reported it as "it may not be possible for 'moderates' to take back control of Labour . On his watch there were illegal wars and a culture of intimidation of just about everyone including the media, illegal waars and the usurping of parliamentary democracy in favour of his sofa. That's 'moderate is it Tony? How very Newspeak.

Haven't you got better things to do, like counting your money and getting that pipeline built.

 

[brogdale]

Joan Ryan (no, me neither) whinging about losing a vote of no confidence - blaming it all on trots, communists and stalinists.
Labour 'moderate' MP loses vote of no confidence from local members

And she'd self identify as a social *democrat*.

 

[Pickman's model]

On the BBC? As if.

if adolf hitler appeared on today
they'd clear the questions with bormann in advance

 

[redsquirrel]

It's not 'amazing' but anyone who wants to understand the last 60 years could do worse than look at the economic plans of the respective parties to understand how radically neo liberalism has become embedded since Heath etc. The IPPR report this week indicates that it is beginning to run out of road at last but we face a long way back to even limited social democracy.

No you're right, amazing was the wrong word, stupid would be more accurate.