Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[butchersapron]

I think a lot of previously relatively uninterested, 'unpolitical' members have ended up pushing the conspiracies too, as a result of the cranks being in positions of influence, and the wagon-circling because of the tenor and opportunism of the attacks.

Yep, it's a bad dialectic (or infinity) and needs someone like McDonnell to break it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

even this, batshit though it is, doesn't in any way say what you claimed :

'Israel is behind the plot to oust JC' theory that is circulating."

it says " 'Israel is behind A plot to oust JC' theory that is circulating."

big, big difference...

Oh ffs come on...I summarised what I see as the implication of claims like this and others I have seen circulating. I pulled up that link because you questioned me mentioning the ap/Israel link/article as an example. You say you are not being hostile but I think you are now. Read around my post, i'm not the only who has noticed.

I won't respond anymore because I don't need prodding in the chest by you because you don't like what I can see happening.

 

[killer b]

Yep, it's a bad dialectic (or infinity) and needs someone like McDonnell to break it.

There does seem to be increasing recognition of it as a problem, but I've struggled to get any sense out of anyone who's pushing this line that I've spoken to about it.

 

[pseudonarcissus]

they're all going to run away when corbyn resigns (before or after ... never being pm) because they are loyal to him not the wider labour movement.

I really hope he goes before never being PM. He’s too compromised to be viable, either as PM, or even as an honest broker in any peace negotiation...I don’t think anyone ever accused him of being invoked in the Good Friday agreement.

He might be a nice, principled bloke, but he has to work in the political world, with the media and their “fake news”.

 

[treelover]

Sheffield momentum FB is nearly all about this, you wouldn't think that a million people were using food banks, that many hundreds of disabled and sick people have taken their own lives, huge homeless crisis in the city, bad landlords.

 

[treelover]

Yep, it's a bad dialectic (or infinity) and needs someone like McDonnell to break it.

There are rumours that John Mc is incandescent about the way this is all being handled, especially by Milne, etc.

 

[cantsin]

Oh ffs come on...I summarised what I see as the implication of claims like this and others I have seen circulating. I pulled up that link because you questioned me mentioning the ap/Israel link/article as an example. You say you are not being hostile but I think you are now. Read around my post, i'm not the only who has noticed.

I won't respond anymore because I don't need prodding in the chest by you because you don't like what I can see happening.

ok, but would be good to see any links to anything, from anyone, who is quite obviously not a screaming crank, that backs up your claim that this theory is circulating, in any meaningful way " Israel is behind the plot to oust JC' - which is quite obviously conspira-bollocks.

You can immediately resort to claiming 'hostility' - standard - or just provide any evidence at all to back this up, no biggy either way.

 

[cantsin]

There are rumours that John Mc is incandescent about the way this is all being handled, especially by Milne, etc.

coming exclusively from chief FT w*nker Seb Payne

 

[Treacle Toes]

ok, but would be good to see any links to anything, from anyone, who is quite obviously not a screaming crank, that backs up your claim that this theory is circulating, in any meaningful way " Israel is behind the plot to oust JC' - which is quite obviously conspira-bollocks.

You can immediately resort to claiming 'hostility' - standard - or just provide any evidence at all to back this up, no biggy either way.

I accept your apology.

 

[cantsin]

I accept your apology.

lolz, gracious of you

 

[cantsin]

There really is mate. It's the same people over and over of course, but, as i keep arguing around this, they are not fringe people any more. They are active labour members and their way of looking at the world is both influential in momentum and in the people around corbyn - scum like Milne for example. I think they pose a real danger because of this - they're all going to run away when corbyn resigns (before or after or never being pm) because they are loyal to him not the wider labour movement.

prevailing mindset amongst Momentum seems to remain much as it has been : We have some cranks in our midsts, particularly on soc media; we have a shitload of cynical weaponisation of the a/s coming from those cranks, by the Continuity Centrists /PLP, who are aided and abetted by the LFI , and ocassionally the Israeli embassy( Shai Massot etc) , we have the wider jewish community understandably upset / nervous by the noise being created around all this.... and we also have a proud Jewish, lifelong anti racist at the head of Momentum who we doubt is taking much shit from Seamus Milne / anyone else on this matter.

 

[butchersapron]

prevailing mindset amongst Momentum seems to remain much as it has been : We have some cranks in our midsts, particularly on soc media; we have a shitload of cynical weaponisation of the a/s coming from those cranks, by the Continuity Centrists /PLP, who are aided and abetted by the LFI , and ocassionally the Israeli embassy( Shai Massot etc) , we have the wider jewish continuity understandably upset / nervous by the noise being created around all this.... and we also have a proud Jewish, lifelong anti racist at the head of Momentum who we doubt is taking much shit from Seamus Milne / anyone else on this matter.

I reckon that's more to do with his private school oxbridge background. And no matter what he says or does Milne is still there.

But seriously, i don't know how you can keep not seeing this. These people are there, they are active and they do have key roles. And they certainly are influencing some central players - look that that knob on the NEC last month, look at what shawcroft's default position was. That's the poison. That's what comes with low level acceptance of it as a price to pay. Which, i think, has been the reading a lot of people who should have known a whole lot better have put on it.

 

[cantsin]

ok, but would be good to see any links to anything, from anyone, who is quite obviously not a screaming crank, that backs up your claim that this theory is circulating, in any meaningful way " Israel is behind the plot to oust JC' - which is quite obviously conspira-bollocks.

You can immediately resort to claiming 'hostility' - standard - or just provide any evidence at all to back this up, no biggy either way.

again, this kinda just follows a pattern...politely ( and maybe over firmly, i dunno ?) request links / evidence.... get accused of hostility...no links / no evidence....move on ....

 

[Jeff Robinson]

More nuanced thread on Munich-gate here:

 

[cantsin]

More nuanced thread on Munich-gate here:

v good - and agree re: the conclusion ( and with Butchers etc ) : Corbyn's apparrent blindness on Syria / Russia is indicative of wider problems with his decades old, reflexive 'right side of history' anti imperialism.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Has anyone checked where corbyn was during the 72 olympics ?

 

[Treacle Toes]

again, this kinda just follows a pattern...politely ( and maybe over firmly, i dunno ?) request links / evidence.... get accused of hostility...no links / no evidence....move on ....

Yeah I can see a pattern too.

In response to me you wrote....

there's no such 'theory circulating', except for maybe amongst the fringe cranks, who no one give s a f*ck about, aprt from the people who have most to gain from highlighting their conspira-idiocy, and pushing it as somehow representative of any wider sentiment amongst Lab supporters / members.

Two other posters wrote...

There really is mate. It's the same people over and over of course, but, as i keep arguing around this, they are not fringe people any more. They are active labour members and their way of looking at the world is both influential in momentum and in the people around corbyn - scum like Milne for example. I think they pose a real danger because of this - they're all going to run away when corbyn resigns (before or after or never being pm) because they are loyal to him not the wider labour movement.

Not sure about that. I must know a lot of cranks.

The pattern I am seeing is that you are not being hostile in tone with either of them. You are not demanding links and implying there is some kind of pattern in your experience of them.


What do you want? A list of links to articles/blogs/comment etc that I have seen over the last few years that imply or directly push the theory of Israeli involvement through interest groups/the lobby in removing JC as leader of the LP? Have you really seen none of them/that circulating?

 

[killer b]

Leave me out of this ta.

 

[Raheem]

Has anyone checked where corbyn was during the 72 olympics ?

Highbury Knitting Circle AGM. Anything to avoid having to stand for the Israeli anthem.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Leave me out of this ta.

I'm not trying to include you. Ta.

 

[cantsin]

Yeah I can see a pattern too.

In response to me you wrote....




Two other posters wrote...



The pattern I am seeing is that you are not being hostile in tone with either of them. You are not demanding links and implying there is some kind of pattern in your experience of them.


What do you want? A list of links to articles/blogs/comment etc that I have seen over the last few years that imply or directly push the theory of Israeli involvement through interest groups/the lobby in removing JC as leader of the LP? Have you really seen none of them/that circulating?

amigo, life is short, we are all of us hurtling towards the abyss, so forgive me asking for the 4th and last time for ANY supporting evidence for your assertion below, that involved anyone but fringe cranks / nazis / conspiraloons / illuminati tin foil hatters - OFFER OPEN TO ALL, KILLER/BUTCHERS ETC :

ok, but would be good to see any links to anything, from anyone, who is quite obviously not a screaming crank, that backs up your claim that this theory is circulating, in any meaningful way
" Israel is behind the plot to oust JC' - which is quite obviously conspira-bollocks.

 

[killer b]

I know loads of labour party members and supporters, and there's a spread of conspiracist thinking in them - even fairly sensible ones - which I don't have evidence for because it involves conversations, things they share and talk about on social media, etc etc. You're just going to have to take my word on that (or not).

I'm not very interested in providing any evidence for something rutita has said though, as mentioned above.

 

[Pickman's model]

I know loads of labour party members and supporters, and there's a spread of conspiracist thinking in them - even fairly sensible ones - which I don't have evidence for because it involves conversations, things they share and talk about on social media, etc etc. You're just going to have to take my word on that (or not).

I'm not very interested in providing any evidence for something rutita has said though, as mentioned above.

to be fair, after the way people in the labour party went after corbyn you can understand why some labour party people would become conspiracist being as there have been conspiracies in their own party to depose the leader.

 

[cantsin]

I know loads of labour party members and supporters, and there's a spread of conspiracist thinking in them - even fairly sensible ones - which I don't have evidence for because it involves conversations, things they share and talk about on social media, etc etc. You're just going to have to take my word on that (or not).

I'm not very interested in providing any evidence for something rutita has said though, as mentioned above.

dont doubt it, it's just the daftness of this idea that anyone even remotely sensible cld be putting fwd the idea that 'israel are behind THE plot to joust JC' - ( sorry, repeating myself ) - like some unified, absurd conspira-theory that explains everything

 

[Treacle Toes]

dont doubt it, it's just the daftness of this idea that anyone even remotely sensible cld be putting fwd the idea that 'israel are behind THE plot to joust JC' - ( sorry, repeating myself ) - like some unified, absurd conspira-theory that explains everything

You are moving the goalposts...nowhere did I suggest it was some kind of unified theory that explains everything. I have seen stuff dating back a couple of years at least on SM and heard stuff in conversations. People are reading and sharing. I do worry that SOME are open to these ideas which is why I wrote:

Err...Netanyahu is hardly a respected, morally revered figure of 'influence'. He is hated. I imagine him chiming in will make some double down on the 'Israel is behind the plot to oust JC' theory that is circulating.

That tells you I have seen this idea circulating. It doesn't say I agree with it or that the people who are saying it aren't quacks or fringe conspiraloons. I don't know who everyone is and I sure as hell don't have a list to hand of the who's who of people YOU believe should trusted or not.

Here is a small list of the types of things I have seen posted/discussed/circulated in recent years that imply or suggest some kind of batshit plot. I got this list from easy searches you could have done yourself if you actually wanted to. If I have seen stuff like this others have too.

Disclaimer; before you blame me any further for simply observing a trend in this kind of thinking, please note that I did not write a single one of these things but post them here because I am getting bored with your insinuations. Any anger induced by reading the following links should be sent directly to the people that wrote them.

Margaret Hodge leads Israeli plot to overthrow Corbyn - Veterans Today | News - Military Foreign Affairs Policy

Unable to oust Corbyn, Israel's Labour allies shift strategy

The Israel Factor: Priti Patel and Emily Thornberry

The pro-Israeli Lobby’s War on Jeremy Corbyn | Mondialisation - Centre de Recherche sur la Mondialisation

Labour councillor suggests Israeli secret service plotting to stop Jeremy Corbyn winning election

Israeli Diplomat Tried To Set Up Groups To Undermine 'Crazy' Corbyn


George Galloway

✔@georgegalloway


This is an #Israeli plot to overthrow @jeremycorbyn #Labour #Corbyn #AntiSemitism

7:35 PM - Jul 24, 2018


https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/morning-star-antisemitism-row-israels-crimes-1.465768

The Lobby

Harry's Place » The Zionist Jew plot to remove Corbyn

 

[cantsin]

You are moving the goalposts...nowhere did I suggest it was some kind of unified theory that explains everything. I have seen stuff dating back a couple of years at least on SM and heard stuff in conversations. People are reading and sharing. I do worry that SOME are open to these ideas which is why I wrote:



That tells you I have seen this idea circulating. It doesn't say I agree with it or that the people who are saying it aren't quacks or fringe conspiraloons. I don't know who everyone is and I sure as hell don't have a list to hand of the who's who of people YOU believe should trusted or not.

Here is a small list of the types of things I have seen posted/discussed/circulated in recent years that imply or suggest some kind of batshit plot. I got this list from easy searches you could have done yourself if you actually wanted to. If I have seen stuff like this others have too.

Disclaimer; before you blame me any further for simply observing a trend in this kind of thinking, please note that I did not write a single one of these things but post them here because I am getting bored with your insinuations. Any anger induced by reading the following links should be sent directly to the people that wrote them.

Margaret Hodge leads Israeli plot to overthrow Corbyn - Veterans Today | News - Military Foreign Affairs Policy

Unable to oust Corbyn, Israel's Labour allies shift strategy

The Israel Factor: Priti Patel and Emily Thornberry

The pro-Israeli Lobby’s War on Jeremy Corbyn | Mondialisation - Centre de Recherche sur la Mondialisation

Labour councillor suggests Israeli secret service plotting to stop Jeremy Corbyn winning election

Israeli Diplomat Tried To Set Up Groups To Undermine 'Crazy' Corbyn


George Galloway

✔@georgegalloway


This is an #Israeli plot to overthrow @jeremycorbyn #Labour #Corbyn #AntiSemitism

7:35 PM - Jul 24, 2018


https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/morning-star-antisemitism-row-israels-crimes-1.465768

The Lobby

Harry's Place » The Zionist Jew plot to remove Corbyn

thanks ( finally ) , will have look - but there were no insinuations at all, it was a straight up assertion that your were wrong ?

 

[Treacle Toes]

thanks ( finally ) , will have look - but there were no insinuations at all, it was a straight up assertion that your were wrong ?

Finally? You what? You could have searched for them yourself...I have a life and things to do you know!

No, i'm not wrong. There is a theory circulating like I and others have said. No one has said it's unified or that quacks didn't start it. It is being seen and discussed in different ways and it isn't anything new. You were insinuating I was making it up and making more of what I actually said, yet didn't 'doubt' another poster though had drawn the same conclusion from their conversations. But there we go.

 

[cantsin]

Finally? You what? You could have searched for them yourself...I have a life and things to do you know!

No, i'm not wrong. There is a theory circulating like I and others have said. No one has said it's unified or that quacks didn't start it. It is being seen and discussed in different ways and it isn't anything new. You were insinuating I was making it up and making more of what I actually said, yet didn't 'doubt' another poster though had drawn the same conclusion from their conversations. But there we go.

searching for links to back up someone else's (wholly wrong, imo ) assertion would be weird, even in this day n age ....

 

[Treacle Toes]

searching for links to back up someone else's (wholly wrong, imo ) assertion / theory, would be weird, even in this day n age ....

Oh good grief, just stop this bloody double speak dance double standard nonsense. I'm bored now. It's not unusual to do a quick search to see what people are posting/talking about.

Here is more of the very thing I have been talking about that you claim not to have noticed...



link to full twtter thread.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I think we are back to the 'fake news' 'mistake line.