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Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

?

"At the event, which happened on Holocaust Memorial Day 2010, Jewish Auschwitz survivor and anti-Zionist Hajo Meyer, who died in 2014 aged 90, compared Israeli policy to the Nazi regime."
 
Have to agree, seems classic bubble bullshit politics not to be able to just memorialise the holocaust on the day set aside for that rather than have some whataboutery.
 
MightyTibberton said:
?

"At the event, which happened on Holocaust Memorial Day 2010, Jewish Auschwitz survivor and anti-Zionist Hajo Meyer, who died in 2014 aged 90, compared Israeli policy to the Nazi regime."
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andysays said:
If I'm reading it right, which I may not be, the person who made the comparison was Hajo Meyer. Is that not right?
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The only quote in the article doing so wasn't from him. It was Haidar Eid.
 
But anyway, it seems that he's apologised and something was said at the actual event that he now wants to distance himself from. . .

The CAA now openly says "Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite," and I've seen a couple of condemnatory quotes that say he is "minimising" the Holocaust.
 
MightyTibberton said:
But anyway, it seems that he's apologised and something was said at the actual event that he now wants to distance himself from. . .

The CAA now openly says "Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite," and I've seen a couple of condemnatory quotes that say he is "minimising" the Holocaust.
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I think Corbyns' real problem on this issue is not necessarily what he says - though his inability to open his mouth without whatabouting is tedious and self-defeating - its his inability to avoid people who do say things that are either openly anti-Semitic or sail close enough to the wind enough times that their meaning is clear.

he has - taking the charitable view - a very unfortunate blind eye when it comes to people or causes he has, or thinks he has, some common cause with, and i'm afraid that we're well past the stage where that blindness could be marked down to niavete - it is wilful, deliberate, knowing blindness that he uses to swim in that segment of the left that has become a byword for virulent anti-Semitism. it is, again to be charitable, a massive hole in his claimed integrity - the less charitable version is that he has some sympathy for those views but his inner 'niceness' would never let him elucidate them in that way.

he's either an anti-Semite, or he's happy to ignore anti-Semitic views if the person mouthing them supports him. not attractive...
 
kebabking said:
I think Corbyns' real problem on this issue is not necessarily what he says - though his inability to open his mouth without whatabouting is tedious and self-defeating - its his inability to avoid people who do say things that are either openly anti-Semitic or sail close enough to the wind enough times that their meaning is clear.

he has - taking the charitable view - a very unfortunate blind eye when it comes to people or causes he has, or thinks he has, some common cause with, and i'm afraid that we're well past the stage where that blindness could be marked down to niavete - it is wilful, deliberate, knowing blindness that he uses to swim in that segment of the left that has become a byword for virulent anti-Semitism. it is, again to be charitable, a massive hole in his claimed integrity - the less charitable version is that he has some sympathy for those views but his inner 'niceness' would never let him elucidate them in that way.

he's either an anti-Semite, or he's happy to ignore anti-Semitic views if the person mouthing them supports him. not attractive...
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Personally what I think is unattractive is that some on this once enlightened hellsite are happy to go along with the ludicrous notion that a lifelong anti racism campaigner is in any way racist/tolerant of racism for the sake of partisan point scoring.
 
Cloo said:
Yes, he goes to our synagogue - he's doing his best to create some kind of nuance in this whole sorry mess.

It does seem to me like now the RW press have grabbed hold of this, it would have been a no-win situation for Corbyn.

Had he, say, expelled anyone who was so much as suspected of antisemitism, it'd be 'Look how many antisemites were in the party, Labour is utterly discredited' from one side, and 'Look, he's not allowing criticism of Israel' on the other. I can't say Corbyn's dealt well with it, but I'm honestly not sure what dealing well with it would have looked like given the number of people willing to make something of it from one side or another. A lot of the damaging fallout related to it is not caused by 'Corbyn' but by his supporters being tone deaf (not necessarily antisemitic) in their eagerness to defend him from the Mail et al, it seems to me.

Either way, it still boils my piss for us to be thrown under the bus to discredit Labour, by people who have fuck all concern for the welfare of Jews.
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You haven't just earned a like, you've earned yourself a fucking quote as well son.
 
03gills said:
Personally what I think is unattractive is that some on this once enlightened hellsite are happy to go along with the ludicrous notion that a lifelong anti racism campaigner is in any way racist/tolerant of racism for the sake of partisan point scoring.
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Is it only Corbyn that you mean here or is every other (formally accused or not) member/supporter also absolved by you?

edit: aren't you supposed to be on some training or something?
 
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Also, can I say, using a (now deceased) holocaust survivor as a political battering ram in a partisan charge is dangerous cuntery of the highest order.

This whole debate is thoroughly fucked up on many, many levels.
 
kebabking said:
I think Corbyns' real problem on this issue is not necessarily what he says - though his inability to open his mouth without whatabouting is tedious and self-defeating - its his inability to avoid people who do say things that are either openly anti-Semitic or sail close enough to the wind enough times that their meaning is clear.
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I think it's partly a case of what he is/what he represents. When he was elected the press/Labour right banged on about his 'baggage' and this is certainly the most prominent suitcase. For all of his career up to the point of the leadership he was more a paid activist than straight politician. That allowed him to support all sorts of causes, never really get doorstepped about contradictions and details. But he's now unambiguously a 'politician' with all that implies. I'm neither a fan of the old labour left way of doing politics or indeed the corbyn as leader project, fwiw, but the latter requires him to make some hard choices, establish a line and even go against his own principles at times. He's failed to do that - I think he's failed to do it around brexit as well, but that's another debate. And as a 'grown up leader' type feller, things come back and bite you on the arse if they aren't dealt with. That's where we are now, a history of not being bothered who he shared a platform with (literally and metaphorically) and a failure to just grasp the nettle.

A consequence of this is the other side of the equation. Whilst there are plenty of genuine accusations of anti-Semitism being made against and within Labour, the agenda has also been taken over by more conservative Jewish groups and the Labour right. To be clear that's not a 'so it doesn't matter/it's all an anti-corbyn plot' point, rather it's something that his followed from his and the party's failure to deal with the issue. It means Labour now will be bounced around and there's no easy way to get a strategy in place. It also leaves little space for any kind of genuine dialogue within the party of the left around Palestine and Israel, becoming just a daily fear of the next headline.
 
Wilf said:
I think it's partly a case of what he is/what he represents. When he was elected the press/Labour right banged on about his 'baggage' and this is certainly the most prominent suitcase. For all of his career up to the point of the leadership he was more a paid activist than straight politician. That allowed him to support all sorts of causes, never really get doorstepped about contradictions and details. But he's now unambiguously a 'politician' with all that implies. I'm neither a fan of the old labour left way of doing politics or indeed the corbyn as leader project, fwiw, but the latter requires him to make some hard choices, establish a line and even go against his own principles at times. He's failed to do that - I think he's failed to do it around brexit as well, but that's another debate. And as a 'grown up leader' type feller, things come back and bite you on the arse if they aren't dealt with. That's where we are now, a history of not being bothered who he shared a platform with (literally and metaphorically) and a failure to just grasp the nettle.

A consequence of this is the other side of the equation. Whilst there are plenty of genuine accusations of anti-Semitism being made against and within Labour, the agenda has also been taken over by more conservative Jewish groups and the Labour right. To be clear that's not a 'so it doesn't matter/it's all an anti-corbyn plot' point, rather it's something that his followed from his and the party's failure to deal with the issue. It means Labour now will be bounced around and there's no easy way to get a strategy in place. It also leaves little space for any kind of genuine dialogue within the party of the left around Palestine and Israel, becoming just a daily fear of the next headline.
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The problem is that he is probably incapable of doing the hard choices, enforce an agreed line and go against his own principles thing; if he was then deselection would have been brought in and the PLP opposition disposed of (which he will have to do if ever he wants to form a Government).

I think he thinks that as long as he is right everyone will just realise it eventually and go along, the possiblity that they will wreck everything and everyone just in order to get rid of him is not something he can comprehend.
 
agricola said:
The problem is that he is probably incapable of doing the hard choices, enforce an agreed line and go against his own principles thing; if he was then deselection would have been brought in and the PLP opposition disposed of (which he will have to do if ever he wants to form a Government).

I think he thinks that as long as he is right everyone will just realise it eventually and go along, the possiblity that they will wreck everything and everyone just in order to get rid of him is not something he can comprehend.
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Yep, this definitely. I've posted similar stuff about before about him and Momentum never getting to the point of actually transforming the party in ways that it will need to deliver. He hasn't done the internal stuff as you say, nor has he really sought to develop a significant extra parliamentary presence in communities. He may well end up as PM, I have my doubts, but even if he does he's going to be hedged in by the failure to really transform the party. Goes without saying that wouldn't have been without risks - multiple risks - but should have been a logical extension of winning the leadership.
 
I thought Labour now had a massive membership, largely of younger, pro-Corbyn Momentum members "on the ground"? I saw someone say the other day that Labour had more members under 27 than any other party had members (or something similar).
 
Wilf said:
Yep, this definitely. I've posted similar stuff about before about him and Momentum never getting to the point of actually transforming the party in ways that it will need to deliver. He hasn't done the internal stuff as you say, nor has he really sought to develop a significant extra parliamentary presence in communities. He may well end up as PM, I have my doubts, but even if he does he's going to be hedged in by the failure to really transform the party. Goes without saying that wouldn't have been without risks - multiple risks - but should have been a logical extension of winning the leadership.
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It takes time to change all the party structures. Especially when those changes are being blocked by some of the old guard who are still in post. This year should see some of he bigger changes coming through, but it will be a few more yet before all of them (most notably, deselection) can make it through.
 
belboid said:
It takes time to change all the party structures. Especially when those changes are being blocked by some of the old guard who are still in post. This year should see some of he bigger changes coming through, but it will be a few more yet before all of them (most notably, deselection) can make it through.
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Yeah, true and the 70s/80s show the Bennites struggled to pull off similar changes (though with a slightly different balance of forces). I just feel, for want of a better word, he/they are losing momentum.

Edit: and to be fair, there's the fact that he never thought for one second that he was going to win. No plans in place.
 
Mr Corbyn's statement was in response to the Times reporting that he hosted an event in 2010 at which a Holocaust survivor compared Israel to Nazism.

Hajo Meyer's House of Commons talk was entitled 'The Misuse of the Holocaust for Political Purposes'.
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The title of the talk seems pretty apt for what's happening today.

The concern being that there are virtually no holocaust survivors left to be able to give such speeches without being called an antisemite (or is he being called that as well now?).

The title of the talk should also give a clue as to why it was being given on holocaust memorial day.

This is proper through the looking glass stuff.
 
I think Jeremy has been a wonderful Labour party leader and will be recognised for managing the transition to a state socialist agenda again. Something many people feared and others thought impossible. The one thing he hasn't managed is to expel the war criminal Blair and his cohorts. Personally I think that would be his crowning glory and something that will be remembered long in to the future...
 
Wilf said:
Yep, this definitely. I've posted similar stuff about before about him and Momentum never getting to the point of actually transforming the party in ways that it will need to deliver. He hasn't done the internal stuff as you say, nor has he really sought to develop a significant extra parliamentary presence in communities. He may well end up as PM, I have my doubts, but even if he does he's going to be hedged in by the failure to really transform the party. Goes without saying that wouldn't have been without risks - multiple risks - but should have been a logical extension of winning the leadership.
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McDonnell and Co are embarking on a national listening tour as we speak, left behind places, Grimsby, etc.
 
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