Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[ViolentPanda]

Thread needs threading.

ISWYDT!

 

[Smangus]

Are we talking Noel Gallagher-style mono-brow excess hair, or Denis Healy "Pampas grass"-style eyebrows?

Full on mono I reckon.

 

[teqniq]

 

[Gramsci]

Its probably their preferred option.

I was chatting to a friend who is originally from the north of Ireland. She said her friends there definitely think it's a possibility that joining up with the republic could be a serious option. Depends how Brexit negotiations go. The north voted remain.

 

[Idris2002]

I was chatting to a friend who is originally from the north of Ireland. She said her friends there definitely think it's a possibility that joining up with the republic could be a serious option. Depends how Brexit negotiations go. The north voted remain.

But are her friends Protestant friends or Catholic friends?

 

[Gramsci]

But are her friends Protestant friends or Catholic friends?

This is what she thought was a change. The Protestants may support this as well. Like London the referendum on EU was not something they wanted.

 

[redsquirrel]

Problem is that 99% of the population can't vote for Corbyn.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

Problem is that 99% of the population can't vote for Corbyn.

They can't vote directly for him, but that can vote indirectly for him by voting for somebody who is a parliamentary candidate for the party of which he is the leader. This is true even if the candidate in question is anti-Corbyn.

 

[omnipeta]

They can't vote directly for him, but that can vote indirectly for him by voting for somebody who is a parliamentary candidate for the party of which he is the leader. This is true even if the candidate in question is anti-Corbyn.

Problem is that 99% of the population can't vote for Corbyn.

Hopefully after watching this link it might change a few people's minds? It should be shown on BBC

 

[mikey mikey]

It is unfortunate that the Guardian’s rejection both of Jeremy Corbyn as a viable leader and the party’s policies as “unlikely to win over Tory-leaning voters” (Editorial, 10 May) was published the day before the leaking of Labour’s draft manifesto. This contained a series of proposals on investing in public services, taxing the wealthiest and scrapping tuition fees that are not just viable but popular with millions of people.

Our concern as media educators, however, is that whole sections of the media are already committed to a narrative that paints Labour as unelectable and Corbyn as a barely credible candidate. This is not a new phenomenon. Academic surveys have shown how newspapers belittled him from the moment he won his first leadership election, while broadcast bulletins systematically gave more coverage to his opponents than to his supporters. Serious discussion of Labour’s proposed policies has been negligible – drowned out by memes focused on Labour’s apparent lack of opposition and Corbyn’s lack of leadership. We are not asking for eulogies of Corbyn, but for reporting that takes seriously the proposals contained in the manifesto and that doesn’t resort to a lazy stereotype of Corbyn as a “problem” to be solved.
Prof Des Freedman Goldsmiths, University of London
Prof Greg Philo Glasgow University
Prof Bev Skeggs Goldsmiths, University of London
Prof James Curran Goldsmiths, University of London
Prof Joanna Zylinska Goldsmiths, University of London
Prof Annabelle Sreberny Soas
Prof David Miller University of Bath
Prof Mica Nava University of East London
Prof Graham Murdock Loughborough University
Prof Natalie Fenton Goldsmiths, University of London
Prof Julian Petley Brunel University
Prof Christian Fuchs University of Westminster
Prof Kate Oakley University of Leeds
Prof Gary Hall Coventry University
Prof Jonathan Hardy University of East London
Prof David Buckingham Loughborough University
Prof Mike Wayne Brunel University
Prof Allan Moore University of Surrey
Prof Andrew Chadwick Royal Holloway, University of London
Prof Michael Chanan University of Roehampton
Prof John Storey University of Sunderland
Prof Martin Barker Aberystwth University
Bart Cammaerts London School of Economics
Justin Schlosberg Birkbeck, University of London
Milly Williamson Brunel University
Michael Bailey University of Essex
Gholam Khiabany Goldsmiths, University of London
Jill Daniels University of East London
Mike Berry Cardiff University
Tom Mills Aston University
Joss Hands Newcastle University
Einar Thorsen Bournemouth University
Nancy Thumin University of Leeds
Richard MacDonald Goldsmiths, University of East London
Anandi Ramamurthy Sheffield Hallam University
Rinella Cere Sheffield Hallam University
Michael Klontzas University of Huddersfield
Ken Fero Coventry University
Pat Holland Bournemouth University
Josh Cunliffe Birkbeck, University of London
Dan Ward University of Sunderland
Savyasaachi Jain Swansea University
Victoria Lowe University of Manchester
Paul Ward Arts University Bournemouth
Jane Dipple University of Winchester
Richard Smith Goldsmiths, University of London
Jamie Medhurst Aberystwth University
Caroline Ruddell Brunel University
Simon Cross Nottingham Trent University
Joanna Redden Cardiff University
Seth Giddings Winchester School of Art
Andreas Wittel Nottingham Trent University
Jeremy Bubb University of Roehampton
Johnny Walker Northumbria University
Tassia Kobylinska Goldsmiths, University of London
Peter Jones Sheffield Hallam University
Kostas Maronitis Leeds Trinity University
Dean Lockwood University of Lincoln
Ceiren Bell Goldsmiths, University of London
Shohini Chaudhuri University of Essex
May Adadol Ingawanij University of Westminster
Shelley Galpin University of York
Ian Lamond Leeds Beckett University
Martin Hall University of Stirling
Gary Morrisroe University of Salford
Jon Baldwin London Metropolitan University
William Proctor Bournemouth University
Margaret Gallagher Freelance

Labour policies drowned out by Corbyn memes | Letters

Letter from 70 media academics asking for better coeverage and less bias.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

Sorry haven't had time to keep up properly with this thread.

Lambeth is relevant to national government. As I said Lambeth Labour leadership hate Corbyn and all he stands for. Things have moved on since last post. The leaked manifesto looks to me that it's dealing with issues that ordinary Labour voters want. ( From my reading of the Mirror).

Why Lambeth is relevant is that ,as I have explained, have alternative to Corbyn. That is Blairite middle ground.

This does nothing for the people in the estate near me.

Looking at the manifesto I don't see anything that should upset people.Except those on £80 000. True to form the London daily paper Evening Standard ( editor is Osborne) has run piece on why those on £80 000 are not "rich".

The Corbyn manifesto is hardly calling for the overthrow of Capitalism. It's imo mildly left of centre social democratic.

Your broadly right about the manifesto, so why are Labour still around 20% behind the polls?

It’s no good continually blaming the print media for its bias and by extension the electorate for being gullible, just as there’s no point in pretending that personality doesn’t matter to voters.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

Not sure why you call it a rant. Mine might have been a shit post, who is to say, but it wasn't remotely ranty. We certainly ain't going to agree on anything, but still, a couple of points:

Above you say I'm making a 'personal attack' on you. That's not it at all. To be honest, if you are committed to public services you might expect someone to be involved in some kind of campaigning, but that wasn't it. The key to what I was asking is below, in a discussion about whether the Labour Party was the only way forward Vs forms of extra parliamentary action I was asking about the political logic of what you had done:




In terms of what I might have done, I haven't had a lifetime of campaigning and commitment (though my 20s probably were a bit like that). It's been bits and pieces. No campaign medals, I do a lot less than many others, inc. people on these boards. Why I got into anything I've done was because YOU FECKIN' ASKED ME! (see below):



Again, adopting a child is great - and if anyone wants to see it in those terms it does save the public sector a large amount of money. But that's not what we are discussing here - it's whether the Labour Party is the only vehicle for establishing decency, services and the rest; whether there's some version of the party that's going to spring into existence to do all that after Corbyn or whether there are other ways to oppose capital. I think your politics are shit and that simply 'saying get rid of Corbyn' shows a poor understanding of neo-liberalism, class, interests and power. But that's not a personal attack.

Then let’s forget all this ‘what did you do in the war’ stuff, a diversion which you started by demanding to know what I’ve done personally to help save public services.

You say my ‘politics are shit’, but I don’t even know what your politics are, although they’d clearly be shit if all they achieve is allow the tories to keep chipping away at our rights and services for another decade or more. My politics have always been similar to Corbyn’s, but I’m just trying to be pragmatic.

If you have an alternative vehicle for saving public services other than replacing the tories with a Labour government, then let’s hear it, because no one else on here has come up with anything else yet.

I think your politics are shit and that simply 'saying get rid of Corbyn' shows a poor understanding of neo-liberalism, class, interests and power. But that's not a personal attack.

That’s not a personal attack!??

Come on then oh wise one, educate me and all the ignorant masses about ‘neo liberalism’, ‘class’ and ‘power’….

 

[Andrew Hertford]

so in your opinion your action is worth more than votes for women
not to mention worth more than the institution of the age of consent
and worth more than legislation against children being sent into mills or mines
not to mention being worth more than ending slavery
what a curious moral calculus you have to weigh the one against the other

Laughable. But now you’ve brought it up, tell us what great advances in freedom, democracy and human rights have your ‘actions’ been instrumental in bringing about?

And what exactly are your ‘actions’, apart that is from spending half your life on here indulging in mutual masturbation with your mates and sneering at people who try to introduce an element of pragmatism?

Looking back through a selection of your innumerable posts on this thread (100+?), I haven’t seen one yet which actually addresses the subject of the Labour Party and Corbyn's leadership. My guess is you don’t give a shit.

Will you even vote at this election?

 

[Captain Christy]

This is what she thought was a change. The Protestants may support this as well. Like London the referendum on EU was not something they wanted.

The fundamentalists in the Democratic Unionist Party voted for Brexit. Give them a few years starved of EU grants and farm subsidies. Their "friends" in Westminster will throw them to the wolves. As for the Scots the very fact that they have to ask permission from Westminster to have a referendum and they accept that situation tells its own story.

 

[Pickman's model]

Then let’s forget all this ‘what did you do in the war’ stuff,

Laughable. But now you’ve brought it up, tell us what great advances in freedom, democracy and human rights have your ‘actions’ been instrumental in bringing about?

And what exactly are your ‘actions’, apart that is from spending half your life on here indulging in mutual masturbation with your mates and sneering at people who try to introduce an element of pragmatism?

Looking back through a selection of your innumerable posts on this thread (100+?), I haven’t seen one yet which actually addresses the subject of the Labour Party and Corbyn's leadership. My guess is you don’t give a shit.

Will you even vote at this election?

How can you be trusted if you say one thing and with the next breath contradict yourself?

 

[Gramsci]

Your broadly right about the manifesto, so why are Labour still around 20% behind the polls?

It’s no good continually blaming the print media for its bias and by extension the electorate for being gullible, just as there’s no point in pretending that personality doesn’t matter to voters.

Was I blaming the print media?

The Mirror and Independent have been doing more balanced coverage.

I brought up Evening Standard as I live in London and it's in my face at every street corner. London is poorly served by media. ES is now edited by Osborne.

Today it was even more obnoxious "Comrade Corbyn flies the Red Flag". There only argument against the manifesto is that redistributing wealth will, in ways that that are not explained, will affect the less well off.

So what are you saying? That the Labour party should ditch policies like the Tobin tax for the City, increased Corporation tax on big business, support for SMEs?

Taking personalities out of it there is nothing extreme in this manifesto.

Or are you saying that it's not the manifesto but that Corbyn is "toxic". A different leader with same manifesto commitments would do better?

I do however think media has a role. It's a fact of life that in a Capitalist neo liberal society that a party which goes against the grain is going to have an uphill struggle to be taken seriously.

 

[Who PhD]

Your broadly right about the manifesto, so why are Labour still around 20% behind the polls?

It’s no good continually blaming the print media for its bias and by extension the electorate for being gullible, just as there’s no point in pretending that personality doesn’t matter to voters.

because the media is biased and the only opinion you hear is that Corbyn is a terrorist

 

[rubbershoes]

because the media is biased and the only opinion you hear is that Corbyn is a terrorist

That's a very patronising view.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's a very patronising view.

it's a very shit view.

 

[redsquirrel]

They can't vote directly for him, but that can vote indirectly for him by voting for somebody who is a parliamentary candidate for the party of which he is the leader. This is true even if the candidate in question is anti-Corbyn.

I think that's pretty naive. Anti-Corbyn MPs aren't going to stop attacking him even if, by some miracle, Labour won the election. You may be indirectly voting for Corbyn* but you are directly voting for a neoliberal supporting prick.

*And the fact that's it's become supporting Corbyn just illustrates the weakness, it's about supporting an individual rather than a movement.

EDIT: And if you are going to argue to support Corbyn then why not argue for people to join the LP? That's a lot more direct and effective way to support him.

 

[Raheem]

*And the fact that's it's become supporting Corbyn just illustrates the weakness, it's about supporting an individual rather than a movement.

This is a fair point, but it's only possible to support things that exist.

 

[mikey mikey]

because the media is biased

Well the BBC is now using Tory tweets for their headlines.

 

[Who PhD]

That's a very patronising view.

How so?

 

[mikey mikey]

However badly Labour does some people here will never allow any blame to fall on Corbyn

However well Labour is doing right now, almost all of the media will never allow fair and accurate reporting of it. Come to think of it, should such overage get published some people here will just say it's from The Canary.

 

[Pickman's model]

However well Labour is doing right now, almost all of the media will never allow fair and accurate reporting of it. Come to think of it, should such overage get published some people here will just say it's from The Canary.

When have you expected fair and accurate reporting in the media? You're living not in canary land but cloud-cuckoo land

 

[mikey mikey]

Media bias against Corbyn is simultaneously overstated, politics as usual and all Corbyn's own fault. [/political expert brick]

 

[Pickman's model]

Media bias against Corbyn is simultaneously overstated, politics as usual and all Corbyn's own fault. [/political expert brick]

When have you expected fair and accurate reporting on any subject? You're asking for something the media does not offer

 

[rubbershoes]

How so?

It implies that people who don't support Labour can't see through the media bullshit

 

[mikey mikey]

The centrist Labour MPs trying to defend their seats on a local-only platform are doing more than simply omitting Corbyn’s name from leaflets. A script seen by the BBC tells supporters: “Admit Jeremy Corbyn won’t win. Tell voters the country needs good independent-minded MPs.” What to say about Labour’s radical manifesto pledges is not in that script – but its authors will have to come up with something. Because if, as reported, some are planning to resign the whip and go independent, there is no moral basis for doing so if they campaigned on Labour’s manifesto.

Those inside Labour who cannot stomach the decisive rejection of free-market economics and adventurist war should have the decency to campaign on the manifesto, which was democratically scrutinised and agreed.

They should be proud of Labour’s pledges to end the health cuts, make university tuition free, end the elderly care crisis and begin the move to a Nordic model of childcare. If they can’t be, they will feel happier elsewhere.

It’s now clear what Corbynism represents – so what does the centre do next? | Paul Mason

 

[Pickman's model]

It’s now clear what Corbynism represents – so what does the centre do next? | Paul Mason

But what do you think?