Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Pickman's model]

I would have thought that the Corbyn effect would have caused Labour societies to blossom, since students are likely to be key components of Corbyn's supporter base. However I have heard that Labour Students is facing the same conflicts that are being played out in the wider Labour Party, which may be why they may not be doing that greatly in terms of numbers. However an increase of 500% for Conservative Future is nothing when you only had, say, four members to begin with.

could this decline in nols be linked to their underhand ways of organisation and stitching things up in student unions up and down the country? say it isn't so!

 

[Tom A]

could this decline in nols be linked to their underhand ways of organisation and stitching things up in student unions up and down the country? say it isn't so!

That too. I am well informed of Labour Students' past form in student politics and NUS issues, especially in the Blair/Brown years. That being said, not many 18 year old freshers will be clued up in the past history of Labour Students, and even if they do know, that wouldn't stop people from trying to "change it from within", like people are doing with the Labour Party itself.

 

[Tom A]

a 500% increase is only possible if they only had four(ish) members to begin with

I note that these figures about the meteoric rise of the student Tories tend to be playing out in the posher Russell Group universities. I doubt the post-war universities and especially the ex-polys will have that same level of success for the Tories.

 

[killer b]

They quote numbers for only two University Labour societies btw.

 

[Sue]

I note that these figures about the meteoric rise of the student Tories tends to be playing out in the posher Russell Group universities. I doubt the post-war universities and especially the ex-polys will have that same level of success for the Tories.

I believe Oxford Brookes has a very big Tory student association.

 

[agricola]

I believe Oxford Brookes has a very big Tory student association.

People wanting to say "I went to Oxford, you know" probably explains that.

 

[Sue]

People wanting to say "I went to Oxford, you know" probably explains that.

Absolutely. The ones I came across used to get very annoyed when people referred to it as 'the poly'.

 

[Corax]

Labour have just announced their Brexit plan. Ends freedom of movement. Twats.

 

[Teaboy]

Absolutely. The ones I came across used to get very annoyed when people referred to it as 'the poly'.

I believe the Oxford students refer to the Brookes students as 'the fools on the hill'. What funny japes........

 

[stethoscope]

Labour have just announced their Brexit plan. Ends freedom of movement. Twats.

Announced by Keir Starmer: General Election 2017: Labour says freedom of movement will end as part of Brexit deal

@Dr. Furface who mentioned Starmer the other day.

 

[treelover]

I note that these figures about the meteoric rise of the student Tories tends to be playing out in the posher Russell Group universities. I doubt the post-war universities and especially the ex-polys will have that same level of success for the Tories.

Sadly Sheffield Hallam Conservative Students has indeed grown.

 

[bimble]

Good news, and an excellent subheading. .

 

[Sprocket.]

Sadly Sheffield Hallam Conservative Students has indeed grown.

Does Hallam cater for local students still or does it now attract more transitory students? When it was the Poly I remember many students were on sandwich courses from local industries. Though that too has faded away.

 

[DotCommunist]

who actually spells the aitch in that? its not like its ever pronounce3d is it. They should make me sub ed

 

[Sprocket.]

who actually spells the aitch in that? its not like its ever pronounce3d is it. They should make me sub ed

Sub hed.

 

[gosub]

Labour have just announced their Brexit plan. Ends freedom of movement. Twats.

Having said earlier in the speech that Labour's priority would be Retaining the benefits of the single market and customs union would also become top priority in Brexit.

That's the fucking Liechtenstein option,Norway with invoked EEA Art 112. To get there requires among other things Liechtenstein conceding there's no difference between being a country of 37,500 and 65 million.
It doesn't fly.

 

[DaveCinzano]

They should make me sub ed

In preparation for the day that happens:

 

[belboid]

Does Hallam cater for local students still or does it now attract more transitory students? When it was the Poly I remember many students were on sandwich courses from local industries. Though that too has faded away.

Lots and lots of Chinese students and other overseas. Still a fair few locals, but not as many is before.

 

[Tom A]

I believe Oxford Brookes has a very big Tory student association.

Sadly Sheffield Hallam Conservative Students has indeed grown.

There seems to be two types of ex-poly, those that have thrived by being in the same city of an established redbrick uni and are just as popular a destination as their more established counterparts, and those that have a more local, community focus, and generally attract students from lower-income backgrounds. It's the latter where I presumed that Tories would not be getting much in the way of support.

 

[Corax]

To get there requires among other things Liechtenstein conceding there's no difference between being a country of 37,500 and 65 million.
It doesn't fly.

The difference is only less than 1% of the global population - so nothing really.

That should defs be the argument we pursue. Someone give me a six-figure job as a 'political advisor'.

 

[not-bono-ever]

Students are greater consumers now than was ever suggested by the shouty Situationists all those years ago. They are paying big bucks for their education and by golly , they want to make theo most of this conspicuous consumption.*

* not all of them obvs, just the legions of wealthy spoiled twats that have turned my old manor into a fast food infested manky ghetto and assisted in driving the community out to cheaper areas

 

[Andrew Hertford]

Given that most of Labour's new/returning voters and members came because of the 'Corbyn effect' - i.e. younger/first time voters seeing that he could offer something leftward in a major British party (disenchanted by the Lib Dems and previous Labour directions), and he also did bring some returning voters back who had been in the wilderness for many years (not voting at all, voting Green/minor left parties, voting UKIP), I'd say that he's at least stemmed the party from dying quite as rapidly as it would have done under Miliband or other moderate (Cooper, Kendall, Smith, etc) - trying to fight the Tories on austerity less hard and fast and cosying up to the EU whilst having nothing to improve working class conditions.

He's far from ideal, but if Corbyn goes, then someone with similar politics/left outlook will not fill his shoes. I would have thought that was obvious by now. So, they're effectively dead as a party of any meaningful social democratic good or alternative to what the Tories offer.

Labour wasn’t dying before Corbyn took over, it was still the only party capable of attracting enough anti tory voters to win a GE. That pool of potential support is still there and it’s ignoring them that will kill off the party, not the other way round. Although whether there’ll be a pool of potential leaders after the election will depend on how many MPs they have left.

Corbyn himself is more the problem than his policies and by sticking with him Labour are ignoring the fact that personality wins votes as much as policy does (in fact possibly even more). Although clearly any leader with Corbyn’s ‘politics/left outlook’ is still going find it hard to win enough support.

We can keep on blaming the media and we could keep scratching our heads over why working class voters won’t do what the middle class far left thinks they should, but all the while, relentless tory cuts plus the reduction in revenue from leaving the EU could mean the death of public services by the end of the next decade. Only an electable Labour Party can stop that from happening.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

This from someone who seems to think that 'revolution' is a viable way of getting rid of the tories.

 

[Pickman's model]

This from someone who seems to think that 'revolution' is a viable way of getting rid of the tories.

Yeh? Go back and quote where I have said, suggested or intimated that. I'll save you time: you won't find a post of mine saying that because I never did. You made it up. In other words it's a lie.

 

[stethoscope]

Labour wasn’t dying before Corbyn took over, it was still the only party capable of attracting enough anti tory voters to win a GE. That pool of potential support is still there and it’s ignoring them that will kill off the party, not the other way round. Although whether there’ll be a pool of potential leaders after the election will depend on how many MPs they have left.

Labour have been in decline since the early 2000s, culminating in losing the 2010 election. Then turning to a 'less hard and fast' right austerity agenda to desperately stay in power. And that failed to stop the decline too which is why we've had turmoil in Labour since and why Corbyn got elected leader twice because the alternatives were also on the right.

We can keep on blaming the media and we could keep scratching our heads over why working class voters won’t do what the middle class far left thinks they should, but all the while, relentless tory cuts plus the reduction in revenue from leaving the EU could mean the death of public services by the end of the next decade. Only an electable Labour Party can stop that from happening.

Well the media/press don't help, but the problem is mainly to be laid on the party having abandoned its working class and its pursuing of the same neoliberal policies that haven't radically differed from the Tories or Lib Dems over the years. Labour's shift to the centre, and to the right was always going to result in this. And prior to Corbyn, it was as much invested in cuts as the Tories (not to say that Corbyn is some magic socialist either - try telling that to communities fucked over by Labour councils). An electable Labour party now will still only stop some of the death of public services, because it's simply not invested in protecting public services anymore without an element of private investment and involvement. Ironically, if/when the inevitable shift back to the right/progress of the party happens when Corbyn gets ousted, it'll be even less wedded to protecting publicly owned services.

 

[chilango]

You can't blame the Europe-wide collapse of Social Drmocratic parties on Corbyn can you?

 

[agricola]

Labour wasn’t dying before Corbyn took over, it was still the only party capable of attracting enough anti tory voters to win a GE. That pool of potential support is still there and it’s ignoring them that will kill off the party, not the other way round. Although whether there’ll be a pool of potential leaders after the election will depend on how many MPs they have left.

It may not have been dying, but it was clearly in need of urgent care - not to repeat things that have already been said loads of times before, but they did lose two elections, and Scotland, most of the membership and were under increasing pressure across the North and in Wales. It is hard to see how any of the other three 2015 candidates - or indeed anyone else in the PLP from those factions - would have reversed that trend.

Corbyn himself is more the problem than his policies and by sticking with him Labour are ignoring the fact that personality wins votes as much as policy does (in fact possibly even more). Although clearly any leader with Corbyn’s ‘politics/left outlook’ is still going find it hard to win enough support.

"Personality" at that level is a complete fiction, though - it is an image that the media crafts for people. Corbyn has, since before his election, been deemed unelectable by them and so we see the continual attacks on him, of which the latest - where he is deemed dangerous for opposing Trident whereas other politicians compete with each other to insist that they would launch a preemptive nuclear strike - is probably the most absurd.

We can keep on blaming the media and we could keep scratching our heads over why working class voters won’t do what the middle class far left thinks they should, but all the while, relentless tory cuts plus the reduction in revenue from leaving the EU could mean the death of public services by the end of the next decade. Only an electable Labour Party can stop that from happening.

I agree. The problem Labour have is that Corbyn represents Labour's best hope of being elected.

 

[redsquirrel]

You can't blame the Europe-wide collapse of Social Drmocratic parties on Corbyn can you?

You got the source for that chilango? What are they defining as Western Europe? And Social-democratic parties for that matter.

 

[chilango]

You got the source for that chilango? What are they defining as Western Europe? And Social-democratic parties for that matter.

It's from The Economist.

Im not going to vouch for the article, but it neatly illustrated the point I wanted to make that it's not just Labour.

 

[Artaxerxes]

You got the source for that chilango? What are they defining as Western Europe? And Social-democratic parties for that matter.

The various declines in industry and working life have all affected Labour, in many ways Maggie launched a silver bullet that's paying dividends today.

The loss of industry, unions, selling off houses so people are grateful to 'get on the ladder' have slowly cut down what working class solidarity there was and Labours willingness to become Conservative-red brand in 97 onwards and not try and reverse the declines outside London have meant a complete drain of talent and support.


There's also the decline in party membership and political engagement in general over last few decades. Ironically Corbyn and the ref seems to have negated that at least.