Sorry if you think that I’m being disrespectful and not engaging with you, I think what you really mean is that I’m not agreeing with you. If you want examples of disrespect then have a look at pickman’s abusive comments and red squirrel’s, who said he ‘wanted to destroy me and my kind’.
I’ve already posted figures which show that public services have always been safer and better funded under Labour governments than under tory ones, even if they’ve been to the right of Corbyn. Nothing you or anyone else has said has shown that not to be the case.
There isn’t much, if any, appetite anywhere in the Labour Party to return to PFIs. Even Owen Smith said that healthcare “will be 100% publicly funded” and set out his own funding plans during his failed leadership bid, as did Corbyn..
It’s the tory government and Labour making itself unelectable which are letting down vulnerable people, as is waiting for the right conditions for the right kind of party to be in a position to be elected, especially when you admit yourself that could take generations and may not even happen at all.
I really don't, we're not going to agree, that's fine, I just want you to explain and defend your position, I've asked you how we get from here to social democracy by campaigning for and electing neo-liberal labour parties, you don't engage with this at all. Your only response is that they are not the tories. So in extremis, when the tories are saying they will end all public services bar police, courts and military, and Labour say oh no, that's terrible, we'll keep the roads publicly owned, well except motorways maybe. You'd say we must protect our essential services by voting for labour. If not, then where is the line? What is the point where Labour have given up so much you won't go further? Because right now your logic is simply Labour > Tories, regardless of the policies labour has, which means the running down of public services, vulnerable people being fucked over, when Labour are a right wing party, as they have been up until Corbyn (and now are just very, very split).
If Labour went to 2025 with PFI on their policy books, would you say no, don't vote Labour? Of course not, you would say vote Labour to keep out the tories. So this doesn't affect your position at all.
btw, 100% publicly funded NHS doesn't mean publicly owned. It could easily mean privatised with state provided health insurance. You will go for that over full privatisation of the NHS by the tories. Then they'll add restrictions, conditions, limits, sanctions onto the public health insurance, until it's so useless it's worthless. You will embrace that and destroy the NHS, because the tories would privatise it fully in one step, and Labour will take a few. How is that protection?
In 2015 you were arguing to vote for the Labour party, which ran on a platform of austerity, because they weren't taking that austerity as far as the tories. How would electing a party that would implement austerity bring about social democracy ever?
I'm not waiting for anything, unless by waiting you mean taking action. If by waiting for the right conditions, you mean taking action to create the right conditions. But of course not. Do you not see how disrespectful it is to me to accuse me of fucking over vulnerable people by waiting for something that might never happen when I've spent the time to start to explain to you the ideas behind the actions I am taking to protect the services we have that support everyone? You don't need to call someone a fucking cunt to be disrespectful to them, you are just as insulting in that final paragraph to me as PM or RS have been to you. Everything I've said on this thread and you think I'm sitting around waiting for the roll of the dice. The actions I've been taking over the past 8 years have contributed to creating the conditions under which Corbyn got nominated and then elected as leader, at least some chance for a social democratic party. You would just continue to argue for austerity as long it's done by Labour.
