Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[ViolentPanda]

The borders of the EU arent based on racial categories, they're based on what nations are part of the pact, not the ethnicity of the citizens within those countries.


So you dont think UKIP are a racist party? Im surprised by that.

Their key policy was to leave the EU, and that was campaigned for on xenophobic, and IMO racist, terms.

Their leader knows how to dogwhistle and get away with it best, whilst those below him arent as subtle.

Who can forget that time when Nigel Farage said words to effect of "theres too many people speaking foreign on public transport" and now people are regularly getting beaten up and abused for speaking a language other than English in public.
Or when he said parts of England are like a "foreign country".
Or this lovely poster:

...which was duly reported to the authorities for inciting racial hatred.

UKIP have always been explicit that they have a "unicultural" vision of what Britain should be - its at the heart of their manifestos. And thats why so many of their racist apartchiks are part of the party.

Nice list of some UKIP key members comments here, including Rozanne Duncan who has a ‘problem with people with negroid features’, Ken Chapman who says that “islam is a cancer that needs eradicating multiculturism does not work in this country clear them all off to the desert with their camals that’s their way of life.”, or Joseph Quirk and his "Well, I reckon dogs are more intelligent, better company and certainly better behaved than most Muslims.” etc etc etc. Plenty more in the link.

Of course UKIP are a racist party.

Are UKIP voters racist? Well, unless a voter is utterly oblivious to all this, then yes, they are racist - or if Im being generous, they dont mind supporting a racist party and arent bothered by the consequences of that. To me that makes them racist still.

By your criteria, all 3 major political parties are racist, in fact Labour most of all as the PLP's policies help kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims - a task which the Tories picked up with gusto.

BTW, if you're going to condemn an entire voter bloc on the words of "key members" of a party, the 3 main parties are again fucked, under your liberaltastic criteria.

 

[redsquirrel]

Is there no one left actually working there?

Don't think so. I mean for all the Guardian's shitness there's still a paper, the Indie is just a clickbait website.

 

[J Ed]

Don't think so. I mean for all the Guardian's shitness there's still a paper, the Indie is just a clickbait website.

Buzzfeed is closer to a newspaper than the Independent is these days

 

[Mr Moose]

Corbyn drops maximum wage idea after Blanchflower ,Murphy and others call it idiotic.

This isnt getting any better.....

Ah, the two Dannys.

 

[Old Spark]

Ah, the two Dannys.

Yeah Danny B was a great playmaker -apart from This is your life.Danny M just ran about a bit by comparison.

They are both upset with the JC -to them he is no longer the Messiah -hes just a very........Probably because he took no notice of them.

Anyway wages and fat cats are in the news so sod the detail.

 

[hash tag]

It is great to hear that Corbyn is all over the news this morning and it sounds like he has come out of his shell and is making a bit of an effort. I am not sure that all of the press has been entirely positive, but nonetheless, It is good to see him getting out there.

 

[kebabking]

It is great to hear that Corbyn is all over the news this morning and it sounds like he has come out of his shell and is making a bit of an effort. I am not sure that all of the press has been entirely positive, but nonetheless, It is good to see him getting out there.

its been good and bad - its certainly true to say that Corbyn has 'got out there' and that he's been able to put his points across, and has done so in terms that are politically attractive to those outside the traditional Corbynite bubble.

the bad bit is that in changing the 'big idea' four times in the space of six hours he has consolidated his image amongst politics wonks and 'gatekeepers' as a slightly senile, if personally pleasant, old man who has trouble with his own shoelaces.

whether we like the idea or not, gatekeepers exist and they help to shape the tone of media. the idea that you can win an election having persuaded most of them that however nice you are, you couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery, is a couragous one...

 

[19force8]

How eloquent, you tinpot pissant gobshite.

Do tell me what the correct Urban response to being sneered at by a self-satisfying smug fuckwit is and I'll try to remember it next time you say something worth replying to.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do tell me what the correct Urban response to being sneered at by a self-satisfying smug fuckwit is and I'll try to remember it next time you say something worth replying to.

Better, but you've got the tense of your insult wrong, unless you're calling me a wanker, in which case, aren't we all?

 

[mikey mikey]

They are trying to confuse you on Corbyn and EU immigration

Don’t be fooled by naysayers: They are trying to confuse you on Corbyn and EU immigration
Mr Sivier sets this out very clealry and concisely.

All in all, the outcry over Mr Corbyn’s speech is a fake. There is no new position; it is a re-statement of the current policy.

But the right-wing hysterics are trying to whip you into a frenzy over it.

 

[agricola]

Another victory at PMQs today, I see.

 

[mikey mikey]

Another victory at PMQs today, I see.

Somebody call Owen Jones and tell him to tune in. He needs to start his retraction article ASAP.

 

[Mr Moose]

It is great to hear that Corbyn is all over the news this morning and it sounds like he has come out of his shell and is making a bit of an effort. I am not sure that all of the press has been entirely positive, but nonetheless, It is good to see him getting out there.

He's the leader of a major political party. I don't think it's necessary to praise him for making 'a bit of an effort' like a middle aged couple trying a bit of foreplay for the first time since the kids grew up.

 

[kebabking]

He's the leader of a major political party. I don't think it's necessary to praise him for making 'a bit of an effort' like a middle aged couple trying a bit of foreplay for the first time since the kids grew up.

indeed - the leader of the second largest political party by number of MP's, a party that has formed 40% of the governments in my lifetime, gets in the news. well woop-fucking-woo, whats next: round of applause for man aged 67 as he shits in a toilet?

he is, i'll remind people, paid more than ten thousand pounds a month for this job - whats the next hurdle he'll cross to great acclaim: single-handledly getting out of bed?

 

[gosub]

indeed - the leader of the second largest political party by number of MP's, a party that has formed 40% of the governments in my lifetime, gets in the news. well woop-fucking-woo, whats next: round of applause for man aged 67 as he shits in a toilet?

he is, i'll remind people, paid more than ten thousand pounds a month for this job - whats the next hurdle he'll cross to great acclaim: single-handledly getting out of bed?

Has he sorted his front garden out yet?

 

[DotCommunist]

Has he sorted his front garden out yet?

all his horticultural time is put in at the allotment

 

[agricola]

'Fury' over Corbyn aide's NATO comments:

Labour's shadow defence secretary is "absolutely furious" after Jeremy Corbyn's spokesman said the UK should help "wind down" tensions on the Nato-Russian border, the BBC has learned,

A source close to Nia Griffith told political correspondent Ben Wright she was not considering her position, but support for Nato was a "red line".

....

Questioned by reporters in Parliament, Mr Corbyn's spokesman said: "What we don't want to see is a ratcheting up of tensions between Russia and the West, as has been taking place. We want to see an engagement with Russia - on a critical basis, but a serious basis."

He added: "We've said repeatedly that we want talks and engagement to wind down military tensions, particularly on the Nato-Russian border and in the Middle East," said the source.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

It is great to hear that Corbyn is all over the news this morning and it sounds like he has come out of his shell and is making a bit of an effort. I am not sure that all of the press has been entirely positive, but nonetheless, It is good to see him getting out there.

The only effort he should be making is to try and get rid of the tories at the next election and that certainly isn't going to happen while he's still leader.

 

[mikey mikey]

The only effort he should be making is to try and get rid of the tories at the next election and that certainly isn't going to happen while he's still leader.

Who would you have replace him? Please don't say ABC because it does nothing to move the conversation forward. Names are needed.

 

[kebabking]

Who would you have replace him? Please don't say ABC because it does nothing to move the conversation forward. Names are needed.

McDonnell would certainly be more effective and more focused as a leader of the opposition - his problem is that while Corbyn is mildly disliked as a person by most of the PLP, McDonnell has a personality charitably described as abrasive - he's loathed by pretty much everyone including a good wedge of those who support Corbyn. Abbot is just loathed by everyone.

a good swathe of the younger, newer MP's who support(ish) Corbyn might or might not do a better job as LotL, and might or might not win the 2020GE, but they would at least start by having the enormous advantage of not having the baggage of the terrible threesome and not having Corbyns appalling personal ratings.

 

[hash tag]

He's the leader of a major political party. I don't think it's necessary to praise him for making 'a bit of an effort' like a middle aged couple trying a bit of foreplay for the first time since the kids grew up.

The only effort he should be making is to try and get rid of the tories at the next election and that certainly isn't going to happen while he's still leader.

He is the leader of a major political party and he really should be out there at every opportunity laying into the tories, from day 1 of his leadership, not day 1 of 2017. One issue is the NHS and social care. The press is full of the crisis it is in. There was the Royal College of Surgeons on Radio 4 yesterday saying very rationally and eloquently how bad it was, there were surgeons on this morning saying the same thing. Corbyn should really be capitalising on this. I know he has, but for what seems like a tap on the shoulder as opposed to hitting hard, very hard. He will not oust the tories by people sitting aroind saying what a good, moralistic, principled man he is. It is, sadly, not enough.

 

[mikey mikey]

a good swathe of the younger, newer MP's who support(ish) Corbyn

That's a relief not to read the usual list of Progress members offered. Dan Jarvis or Stella Creasy and the like. I would sooner support the SNP.

 

[butchersapron]

He is the leader of a major political party and he really should be out there at every opportunity laying into the tories, from day 1 of his leadership, not day 1 of 2017. One issue is the NHS and social care. The press is full of the crisis it is in. There was the Royal College of Surgeons on Radio 4 yesterday saying very rationally and eloquently how bad it was, there were surgeons on this morning saying the same thing. Corbyn should really be capitalising on this. I know he has, but for what seems like a tap on the shoulder as opposed to hitting hard, very hard. He will not oust the tories by people sitting aroind saying what a good, moralistic, principled man he is. It is, sadly, not enough.

What exactly constitutes 'out there'? What is it that you imagine he does everyday? And what of what he does everyday do you actually get to see? What filters must his activity pass through before it ever reaches you? Are there any interests working to make it look like he's not 'out there' all the time?Are the connected to the operation of those filter - either hidden largely unconscious ones or the more open and agenda driven ones?

 

[kebabking]

...I would sooner support the SNP.

in which case welcome to having 150 MP's...

 

[mikey mikey]

in which case welcome to having 150 MP's...

You have not gone far enough: unless the "moderates" (i.e. Labour First, Progress and Blue Labour) occupy the leadership and the shadow cabinet then the Tories will be able to finish the ancient Ritual of Summoning and rise to Magi-Pharaohs. enabling a thousand year reign of terror amongst us. And it will be all the fault of those pesky members who failed to recognise the great leadership skills in the stitching of those empty suits in the PLP.

It's Chuka or death, I tells ya!

 

[kebabking]

...And it will be all the fault of those pesky members who failed to recognise the great leadership skills in the stitching of those empty suits in the PLP....

the fault is not the membership noticing the utter vaccuity of the likes of Burnham, Kendal etc... its in assuming that because the right of the party had no candidates that could do the job, the left of the party would have candidates who could do the job.

there probably are people throughout the spectrum of the party who could do the two jobs of uniting the party and looking like a potential PM to the electorate, but none of them are putting their names forward.

 

[butchersapron]

the fault is not the membership noticing the utter vaccuity of the likes of Burnham, Kendal etc... its in assuming that because the right of the party had no candidates that could do the job, the left of the party would have candidates who could do the job.

there probably are people throughout the spectrum of the party who could do the two jobs of uniting the party and looking like a potential PM to the electorate, but none of them are putting their names forward.

And none of them are going to until Corbyn steps down. Which he's not going to do this side of the next GE - if he does step down before then all the arguments of that part of the labour left since 83 (and before) will have been demonstrated to be merely for show. And say what you like about him but his politics are not for show.

 

[mikey mikey]

there probably are people throughout the spectrum of the party who could do the two jobs of uniting the party and looking like a potential PM to the electorate, but none of them are putting their names forward.

Such as? Don't get me wrong, I hope that you are right. I agree that the mistake was made when we had the Beige Three (Cooper, Kendall and Burnham) and then a token nobody in order to have the semblance of "a broad spectrum" and then Jeremy was voted in because people felt "not those three fuckers".

But it isn't enough to think we can find a new leader once Jeremy is out of the picture. Luke Akehurst and his band of Red Tories will be all over it like piss on a Russian prostitute. If you can think of anybody that is not from the "moderate" (i.e. Right) of the party, then by all means, speak up. I have found some "shy (red) Tories" are unwilling to name names because they know full well that calling somebody like Tristram Hunt a "compromise" between left and right shows them up for the scheming Blairite that they are: c.f. Owen Smith.

So whom do you have in mind?

 

[kebabking]

...And say what you like about him but his politics are not for show.

i don't disagree with the rest of your analysis, and i don't really disagree with this bit - however i think there is a bit of show about his politics, and its a very damaging thing: the incident with Nia Griffiths and with Clive Lewis before her, and indeed Emily Thornberry (all three broadly sympathetic to his views) suggests that he is simply unable to cope with anything that does not absolutely mirror his views, even if he has previously agreed that line, and by accepting that fudge he gets the majority of what he wants.

in all three cases he will have had a conversation about policy with the potential shadow SofS, they'll have had differing views but they'll have reached a agreed compromise that both considered workable if not perfectly inline with their views - in each case the shadow then goes off and puts that policy in place, and in each case Corbyn and his team immediately back away from the agreed policy and undermine the shadow.

i met Griffiths when she came to NATO exercise, she spent about 90 minutes in my tent with a couple of senior NATO officers and National defence ministers, there is - i promise you - no possible way that anyone on Gods green earth could have been under any kind of missapprehension about her views on NATO and the commitment to the Baltic states. Corbyn must have known the strength of her views when he appointed her, and he must have agreed with her a position they could both live with (unless he's a complete idiot), the damaging thing is that - shades of Trump - he just can't keep his gob shut.

 

[mikey mikey]

Well as an "insider" I would love to hear your list of possible leadership candidates.