Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[butchersapron]

TBH, it is more this that makes me call bullshit: Homophobic slurs against Angela Eagle in Wallasey? I've only experienced the opposite

You're def calling it bullshit then? Have to say that a non-eye witness report saying it wouldn't happen because my parents are great (and one that actually says it wouldn't go unchallenged, not that it didn't happen) isn't a killer bit of evidence for me.

 

[andysays]

According to that article

The confidential report on the investigation into Wallasey Constituency Labour Party says: “The investigation has found that some members have truthfully claimed that homophobic instances occurred during the AGM. Others truthfully said that they were not aware of those instances.

“It is possible for the events to have occurred without the knowledge of all members. The allegations are not that the CLP is institutionally homophobic or that members were aware of homophobia but took no action, but are specific to individuals. These allegations will be reported to the Disputes Panel regarding individual disciplinary action.”

It's worth pointing out that the article is based on a leaked confidential report, so until the individuals concerned have faced whatever "disciplinary action" is thought necessary, we're unlikely to hear the full story and be able to judge for ourselves how serious or significant it all is.

 

[cantsin]

I don't know what happened but i wanted to say this earlier when this was first reported - it's perfectly possible to be the victim of homophobic abuse without being present.

self evidently true - but seems massively unlikely to have happened in this case - Tessa fucking Jowell's third hand hearsay vs every CLP member that was present

 

[butchersapron]

self evidently true - but seems massively unlikely to have happened in this case - Tessa fucking Jowell's third hand hearsay vs every CLP member that was present

Was the report based on Tessa Jowell saying something do you think?

 

[cantsin]

Was the report based on Tessa Jowell saying something do you think?

honestly mate, if this is some theoretical exercise to get the day going, I'll leave you to it, just too daft .

 

[butchersapron]

honestly mate, if this is some theoretical exercise to get the day going, I'll leave you to it, just too daft .

It's not theoretical no. What was the basis for the report? Was it the evidence from a 100 people or just what tessa jowell said? What basis did they offer for saying homophobic abuse from individuals took place? Because tessa jowell said it did? So far today i've seen two rejections of the report based on 'it's unlikely and my parents wouldn't allow it.

I think it's a bit shoddy to treat the claim so lightly - regardless of whether there's some substance to to it or not. And it's doing exactly what someone who would make it up would hope you do.

 

[brogdale]

Could be entertaining?

 

[treelover]

 

[treelover]

RE:local party environment, they seem to be complaining about new members wanting structure, accountability, sending in motions, etc, why is that wrong?, if older members aren't happy, its not or should be a cosy social meeting(though it should be cordial) well, i seem to recall they didn't mind when hundreds were booted out in the Poll Tax days or forced out many many more.

 

[treelover]

What will Jeremy Corbyn go on today at #pmqs? "Who knows?!" says @bbclaurak #bbcdp

No smears/bias eh Laura?

 

[Mr Moose]

TBH, it is more this that makes me call bullshit: Homophobic slurs against Angela Eagle in Wallasey? I've only experienced the opposite

Butchers is right that it can't be assumed that the report is inaccurate or produced with ill will.

And the article is good too because it's the truth that most people into left politics are because of their desire for equality and rejection of prejudice. She does also concede that she has experienced plenty of prejudice generally. No one can claim the Labour Party is totally immune. The better it's dealt with the shorter the stick for opponents.

It's weird because if you wish to insult AE her sexuality is just about the most neutral thing about her. Anything competence or charisma related, knock yourselves out.

 

[bemused]

I think the fact that someone bricked her window probably her local party isn't the most collegiate of the group.

 

[eoin_k]

It's not theoretical no. What was the basis for the report? Was it the evidence from a 100 people or just what tessa jowell said? What basis did they offer for saying homophobic abuse from individuals took place? Because tessa jowell said it did? So far today i've seen two rejections of the report based on 'it's unlikely and my parents wouldn't allow it.

I think it's a bit shoddy to treat the claim so lightly - regardless of whether there's some substance to to it or not. And it's doing exactly what someone who would make it up would hope you do.

None of us are in a position to make a serious assessment of this confidential report because a conveniently selective leak tells us that it is based on one hundred anonymous statements, but gives no indication of how many of them support the allegations (never mind any other tools to evaluate it in less crudely quantitative terms). Any organisation should tackle sexism, homophobia, and anti-semitism within its ranks. Yet the 'moderate' wing of the Labour Party also seems willing to cynically exploit, exaggerate, and misrepresent such issues to conflate them with political differences, legitimate public anger, and online abuse by right-wing trolls. It might be bad strategy for Corbyne supporters to point this out and doing so might also prevent them from examining homophobic or anti-semitic attitudes that are tolerated by segments of the left (an issue that is mirrored by those 'moderates' who erase Jewish anti-Zionism by simply equating the two).

--------------

I think the fact that someone bricked her window probably her local party isn't the most collegiate of the group.

Why should we assume that the brick thrower was a member of the Labour Party? This is exactly the sort of the muddying of the water I am getting at. (Not to suggest that you are doing this deliberately, but this is the effect of how this event has been written into the narrative.)

 

[kabbes]

Nobody bricked her window, ffs.

 

[Beermoth]

I think the fact that someone bricked her window probably her local party isn't the most collegiate of the group.

Who bricked her window?

 

[butchersapron]

None of us are in a position to make a serious assessment of this confidential report because a conveniently selective leak tells us that it is based on one hundred anonymous statements, but gives no indication of how many of them support the allegations (never mind any other tools to evaluate it in less crudely quantitative terms). Any organisation should tackle sexism, homophobia, and anti-semitism within its ranks. Yet the 'moderate' wing of the Labour Party also seems willing to cynically exploit, exaggerate, and misrepresent such issues to conflate them with political differences, legitimate public anger, and online abuse by right-wing trolls. It might be bad strategy for Corbyne supporters to point this out and doing so might also prevent them from examining homophobic or anti-semitic attitudes that are tolerated by segments of the left (an issue that is mirrored by those 'moderates' who erase Jewish anti-Zionism by simply equating the two).

Shouldn't this be directed at those rejecting the report rather than me? And doesn't the second half of your paragraph above - from 'Yet' onwards - then go on to do exactly what you were warning about?

As it goes, we can assume at least some of the people interviewed did either allege homophobic things were said and that the authors of the report found them credible. That's pretty undeniable.

 

[ruffneck23]

Who bricked her window?

That indeed is the question...

 

[kabbes]

It wasn't even her window.

 

[eoin_k]

It wasn't even her window.

Articles based on the leaked report suggest that this version of events was over spun by her opponents. it claims the only occupants of the building were local Labour Party offices and the landlord. Labour occupied that floor - even if they shared the stairwell with the landlord. The other companies listed at this address didn't have office space. None of which establishes that the incident was politically motivated, never mind connected to a Momentum supporter or Party member.

 

[eoin_k]

Shouldn't this be directed at those rejecting the report rather than me? And doesn't the second half of your paragraph above - from 'Yet' onwards - then go on to do exactly what you were warning about?

As it goes, we can assume at least some of the people interviewed did either allege homophobic things were said and that the authors of the report found them credible. That's pretty undeniable.

I think its a minefield for Corbyne supporters and left-wing opponents of Labour Party moderates, but there is also a context that makes people's cynicism understandable.

 

[butchersapron]

Articles based on the leaked report suggest that this version of events was over spun by her opponents. The only occupants of the building were local Labour Party offices and the landlord. Labour occupied that floor - even if they shared the stairwell with the landlord. The other companies listed at that address don't have separate office space.

According to the report they don't have any offices in the building full stop.

 

[tim]

What's Paul Masons game ?

Dominoes

 

[kabbes]

Articles based on the leaked report suggest that this version of events was over spun by her opponents. it claims the only occupants of the building were local Labour Party offices and the landlord. Labour occupied that floor - even if they shared the stairwell with the landlord. The other companies listed at this address didn't have office space. None of which establishes that the incident was politically motivated, never mind connected to a Momentum supporter or Party member.

If you wanted to brick her window, you'd actually brick her window. This is what it looks like.



Do you really think that smashing the window by the door is anything more than kids being arseholes?

 

[inva]

Do you really think that smashing the window by the door is anything more than kids being arseholes?

Momentum Kids

 

[tim]

Momentum Kids

If they'd had real momentum, they'd have gone for those juicy big windows not the piddling pane next to the door;cvery shoddy vandalism.

 

[Pickman's model]

If you wanted to brick her window, you'd actually brick her window. This is what it looks like.

Do you really think that smashing the window by the door is anything more than kids being arseholes?

tbh if you look at the window frame some serious structural damage appears to have been done

 

[eoin_k]

...
Do you really think that smashing the window by the door is anything more than kids being arseholes?

It's conceivable that the broken window was politically motivated, but it seems as likely to have been random vandalism. The report's findings that it was 'highly likely' to have been political doesn't seem that convincing,without further evidence. If there was any, you might expect it to have leaked along with everything else that damages Corbyn. So what if the window was broken by an angry constituent, an inept Momentum supporter even, who got carried away after a few pints? Perhaps someone who was also an inexperienced saboteur and smashed the wrong window in the heat of the moment? A brick through the window of a communal stairwell in an empty office building might not seem like the worst instance of political violence, when compared to say Angela Eagle's voting record on military and foreign policy issues, but Corbyn's supporters can't say this.

Without condoning sexist or homophobic abuse, what seems more concerning to me than the substance of these specific allegations is how effectively these are being weaponised by the right-wing of the labour party. I don't think that it is just Corbyn supporters who need to be worried about this. Public displays of anger and contempt towards members of a political elite are being increasingly conflated with oppressive behaviour towards marginalised social groups.

 

[cantsin]

Indie being v positive about what sounds like another strong Corbo PMQ session today, and interestingly, the journo wonders whether James Schneider, as new comms bod, is already making his mark, eg : MH key focus today ( assuming journo sees this as a younger orientated issue) .

It makes a change, Schneider not getting an MSM kicking for Momentum role, and smart move to get him away from public face of Momentum imo, easy target.

( and assume Milne now confirmed gone ? Again, prob for best )

"One wonders if Corbyn has been getting some coaching from his new comms man, 28-year-old James Schneider, before PMQs. The questions he asked were ones that affect the public, grab the attention of younger people and have the capacity to cause real damage to the already shaky career of the Health Secretary. "

I'm usually the first to slam Jeremy Corbyn, but at this week's PMQs he looked like a better leader than Theresa May

 

[bemused]

Theresa May's Tories open up 18-point lead over Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

UKIP down to 6%, so their fantasy that Labour voters would run to them doesn't seem to have come true.

 

[Mr Moose]

Theresa May's Tories open up 18-point lead over Jeremy Corbyn's Labour

UKIP down to 6%, so their fantasy that Labour voters would run to them doesn't seem to have come true.

Only because it's already happened those voters having been eased to the right now abandoning UKIP for the Tories. 29% suggests few new defectors but they are not the winning cohort.

It's very possible to see Labour build a few more percent as Corbyn's confidence rises, but the worry is that for a GE he is already holed below the waterline on his previous affiliations and his confused pitch to lead a capitalist nation state. Does he like Parliament, the Military, Industry, Agriculture? Can he convince he is batting for Britain? He appears a contradiction.