Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[agricola]

Of all the sticks with which Corbyn has been beaten this past year, this "sacking of Rosie Winterton" one is perhaps the most annoying.

One senior Labour source said Winterton, who was made a dame in the last New Year’s honours list, had a reputation for being one of the most discreet and loyal of the shadow team, working behind the scenes to try to keep Labour’s warring groups together.

“She more than anyone tried to keep things together over the summer, coming up with plans about how to unite the shadow cabinet and the party,” the source said. “She has really tried to make it work.”

Apparently Conor McGinn is going to resign in protest.

 

[kebabking]

Of all the sticks with which Corbyn has been beaten this past year, this "sacking of Rosie Winterton" one is perhaps the most annoying.



Apparently Conor McGinn is going to resign in protest.

Two sides to it - everyone knows that Winterton is no Corbynite. She doesn't share his political views and she doesn't like him personally, and realistically you can't have a leader and chief whip who can't stand each other, and for good or ill he's the leader so she has to go.

However, the damaging thing for Corbyn is that it's another example of him seemingly being unable to act in good faith - it appears he is simply unable to agree to a compromise he doesn't like but recognises is politically necessary without turning around 5 minutes later and repudiating it but doing so without having the integrity to tell the person involved that the deal is off.

Stiffing people who think they have an agreement with him - look at his close ally Clive Lewis - is going to dramatically shorten the list of people who are prepared to work for him. They disagree with him on policy so they aren't keen to begin with, but if they think that it's only a matter of time before he has one of his press creatures annul whatever publicly agreed policy they've managed to hammer out between them, then they simply won't bother.

 

[agricola]

Two sides to it - everyone knows that Winterton is no Corbynite. She doesn't share his political views and she doesn't like him personally, and realistically you can't have a leader and chief whip who can't stand each other, and for good or ill he's the leader so she has to go.

However, the damaging thing for Corbyn is that it's another example of him seemingly being unable to act in good faith - it appears he is simply unable to agree to a compromise he doesn't like but recognises is politically necessary without turning around 5 minutes later and repudiating it but doing so without having the integrity to tell the person involved that the deal is off.

Stiffing people who think they have an agreement with him - look at his close ally Clive Lewis - is going to dramatically shorten the list of people who are prepared to work for him. They disagree with him on policy so they aren't keen to begin with, but if they think that it's only a matter of time before he has one of his press creatures annul whatever publicly agreed policy they've managed to hammer out between them, then they simply won't bother.

How hasn't he acted in good faith with regards to that sacking? She spent most of this year organizing rebellions against him.

 

[kebabking]

How hasn't he acted in good faith with regards to that sacking? She spent most of this year organizing rebellions against him.

He was negotiating with her regarding the make up if the SC, good faith would have been to sack her immediately he was re-elected (which he'd have the absolute right to-do as leader), or let her know that he would be replacing her with another CW who he could work with when the inevitable reshuffle took place.

It's bad faith to negotiate knowing full well that you won't be implementing anything you agree to.

 

[Sue]

It's bad faith to negotiate knowing full well that you won't be implementing anything you agree to.

Bad faith to take a job then spend your time constantly trying to undermine the person who gave you it, I'd have thought...

 

[cantsin]

So, Chakrabarti's first big media engagement since appointment,

Peston : "Grammars ? "

SC : "Bad "

Peston : " but your ....private ...blah ."

"Labour Hypocrisy " all over twitter etc .

Repeat ad infinitum until either Grammars are off the agenda, or Abbo + Chakrabarti gone .



grim

 

[kebabking]

Bad faith to take a job then spend your time constantly trying to undermine the person who gave you it, I'd have thought...

In which case he should have sacked her, not started a conversation with her about building 'unity' together while looking for a successor.

He could simply have told her that shadow cabinet appointments were not up for discussion, and that he would appoint who ever the hell he liked in the forthcoming reshuffle, and then sacked her - as is absolutely his right as party leader. He had absolutely no need to deceive anyone, or spin a line, or keep people guessing, or to suggest that he wanted to walk on one path while knowing he was about to walk down another.

 

[Sue]

In which case he should have sacked her, not started a conversation with her about building 'unity' together while looking for a successor.

He could simply have told her that shadow cabinet appointments were not up for discussion, and that he would appoint who ever the hell he liked in the forthcoming reshuffle, and then sacked her - as is absolutely his right as party leader. He had absolutely no need to deceive anyone, or spin a line, or keep people guessing, or to suggest that he wanted to walk on one path while knowing he was about to walk down another.

Cue 'Evil mysogonist Corbyn sacks woman' headlines. I'm not a fan of Corbyn but he really can't win with these fuckers. What a shower.

 

[two sheds]

He was negotiating with her regarding the make up if the SC, good faith would have been to sack her immediately he was re-elected (which he'd have the absolute right to-do as leader), or let her know that he would be replacing her with another CW who he could work with when the inevitable reshuffle took place.

It's bad faith to negotiate knowing full well that you won't be implementing anything you agree to.

Did he actually make an agreement? agricola said they thought they had an agreement but was that just because he was negotiating with them?

With the number who've been stabbing him in the back it might not be sensible to tell them what he's going to do in advance.

 

[agricola]

In which case he should have sacked her, not started a conversation with her about building 'unity' together while looking for a successor.

He could simply have told her that shadow cabinet appointments were not up for discussion, and that he would appoint who ever the hell he liked in the forthcoming reshuffle, and then sacked her - as is absolutely his right as party leader. He had absolutely no need to deceive anyone, or spin a line, or keep people guessing, or to suggest that he wanted to walk on one path while knowing he was about to walk down another.

That is a daft argument, though. For a start, the idea that the Chief Whip should be negotiating with the leader on behalf of the PLP is surely the opposite of how things should work. Secondly, discussions about unity can only be held if both sides are honest - and there is abundant evidence that Winterton's wasn't (and hasn't been since Corbyn was elected), hence all the usual suspects coming out and saying what a moderate, unifying influence she was over the past few days.

 

[DotCommunist]

seemingly being unable to act in good faith

he has tried the enemies close approach. Good faith is a two way street, I'll turn one cheek but part both no I won't

Of all the crits of corbyn this is a weak suace indeed. He gave everyone, even virulent enemies, a fair shake. Thats his bag, compromise and consensus. But fool me once shame on you etc

Don't keep vipers in the bed.

 

[treelover]

So, Chakrabarti's first big media engagement since appointment,

Peston : "Grammars ? "

SC : "Bad "

Peston : " but your ....private ...blah ."

"Labour Hypocrisy " all over twitter etc .

Repeat ad infinitum until either Grammars are off the agenda, or Abbo + Chakrabarti gone .



grim

Aaron Bastani has created a furore(within certain circles) for arguing Corbyn shouldn't have gone to a Stop Racism 16 (SWP Front) as by endorsing the event it condones rape abusers, the organisers.

 

[treelover]

We are about advancing a radical democratic politics which demands the flourishing of every single person - regardless of race, class and gender.

Thats the opposite of working with organisations run by central committee which cover up sexual assault.

Aaron Bastani | Facebook

 

[Sasaferrato]

I wish they'd all just shut the fuck up. I am so utterly bored of all this nonsense and the whining and bleating from the anti Corbynites. They still don't seem to get/accept they lost and that they are in no position to dictate terms on anything. Ffs, can someone make them all go away?

You don't seem to appreciate that Corbyn is unelectable.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Did he actually make an agreement? agricola said they thought they had an agreement but was that just because he was negotiating with them?

With the number who've been stabbing him in the back it might not be sensible to tell them what he's going to do in advance.

Whilst I appreciate that the current government isn't overburdened with talented people, Corbyn's picks are largely people I've never heard of. Barrel scraping on his part?

 

[DrRingDing]

You don't seem to appreciate that Corbyn is unelectable.

He has a mountain to climb. But has a huge team of sherpas to help him.

 

[J Ed]

Whilst I appreciate that the current government isn't overburdened with talented people, Corbyn's picks are largely people I've never heard of. Barrel scraping on his part?

I don't know whether picking people to serve in the Shadow Cabinet based on whether they are well known or not is a very good criteria for selection

 

[butchersapron]

He has a mountain to climb. But has a huge team of sherpas to help him.

Who?

 

[DrRingDing]

Who?

Our lord and saviour.

 

[butchersapron]

Our lord and saviour.

No, who are the sherpas? You're in the anarchist labour party police. Who are your sherpas?

 

[cantsin]

Whilst I appreciate that the current government isn't overburdened with talented people, Corbyn's picks are largely people I've never heard of. Barrel scraping on his part?

name recognition factor should be a central concern in appointing a shadow cabinet, definitely.

Who would you have in mind ?

 

[Pickman's model]

Aaron Bastani has created a furore(within certain circles) for arguing Corbyn shouldn't have gone to a Stop Racism 16 (SWP Front) as by endorsing the event it condones rape abusers, the organisers.

Which circles?

 

[Libertad]

He has a mountain to climb. But has a huge team of sherpas to help him.

One of Corbyn's huge team of sherpas.

 

[Sasaferrato]

name recognition factor should be a central concern in appointing a shadow cabinet, definitely.

Who would you have in mind ?

Your reply made me chuckle.

One would have expected for those of sufficient ability for Cabinet rank, to have registered on your radar, surely?

 

[Sasaferrato]

One of Corbyn's huge team of sherpas.

His aren't in such splendid nick.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Our lord and saviour.

I suspect that Corbyn would capitalise the 'lord'.

 

[hot air baboon]

grim

...cringe making...not exactly car-crash but definitely that horrible grinding noise as your entire side panel is scraped along a badly-judged width-restriction bollard.....tbh the right can always be nailed to the floor over their championing of standards of personal and sexual morality that they never seem to practice in private...the left will always be wide open over their BTL property portfolios, children's school arrangements, rush to take up seats in unelected chambers etc...

 

[Sasaferrato]

That is a daft argument, though. For a start, the idea that the Chief Whip should be negotiating with the leader on behalf of the PLP is surely the opposite of how things should work. Secondly, discussions about unity can only be held if both sides are honest - and there is abundant evidence that Winterton's wasn't (and hasn't been since Corbyn was elected), hence all the usual suspects coming out and saying what a moderate, unifying influence she was over the past few days.

The fact that the erstwhile Chief Whip had to negotiate with the PLP, on the part of the leader says it all.

 

[Sasaferrato]

...cringe making...not exactly car-crash but definitely that horrible grinding noise as your entire side panel is scraped along a badly-judged width-restriction bollard.....tbh the right can always be nailed to the floor over their championing of standards of personal and sexual morality that they never seem to practice in private...the left will always be wide open over their BTL property portfolios, children's school arrangements, rush to take up seats in unelected chambers etc...

The message I get from your post is that politicians of all stripes are mendacious and self-serving.

Very perspicacious of you, I fully agree.

 

[butchersapron]

The fact that the erstwhile Chief Whip had to negotiate with the PLP, on the part of the leader says it all.

What does it say?