Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[ViolentPanda]

what sort of thing do you have in mind? anti union stuff? the old ways by which I think some were socialised into left wing/class politics have broken down post 70s, I suppose.

Mostly anti-union stuff, but also some degree of curriculum and syllabus manipulation that led to certain pieces of history, for example, being de-emphasised. My step-nephew, who recently sat his GCSEs, including history, didn't know that the English Civil War was also the English Revolution, nor anything about the freethinkers that arose from it, and played a part in the politics of the next two centuries.

 

[rioted]

I just wish it would all go away.

It won't go away all the time Israel wants more land and people object.

 

[frogwoman]

Every fucking time.

 

[Idris2002]

The phrase 'conspiracy theorist' is a pejorative designed to shut down legitimate enquiry - it's designed like that. And it gets us self-censoring, as you say. I suggest ignoring all that.

After all what is in Nexus years ago might be in yesterday's Europhysics News

Against my better judgement I opened that link, only to find that the lead author is an employee of the Brigham Young University - or should I say the so-called Brigham Young so-called University. This is the Mormon uni, in Utah, and it's the biggest fucking joke of the Yank tertiary sector, a sector that is already oversupplied with it share of humorous incidents.

 

[existentialist]

It's a fair point.

I guess my observation was the telling of people to ignore the scientific publication and use google instead, as cid did, is the exact reverse of the usual exhortation.

It's also not the answer, though...although it is a terribly good way of avoiding the question.

So, someone makes a statement.

Someone else says "Really? So how's that, then?"

Person 1 can either choose to substantiate his statement, by (eg) providing evidence to support it, or not substantiate it, by (eg) suggesting that Person 2 go and do his own research.

There's nothing wrong with either approach, but Person 1 is not in a position to take it amiss if Person 2 continues to be critical of his theory - until he has attempted to substantiate it, Person 2 owes him no obligation to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Otherwise it's just too easy for people to fling assertions around and insist they're as good as fact until someone has gone to the trouble of doing enough research to repudiate them. And, of course, it is inevitable that you can do all the research you like, but if you come back to someone like Person 1 with the fruits of your endeavours, they'll only tell you it's the wrong evidence anyway.

If someone wants to make a point, they're going to have to substantiate it, at least in a critical community like this.

 

[chilango]

It won't go away all the time Israel wants more land and people object.

Oh for those halcyon days free from anti-semitism in the years before 1945 eh?

 

[Cid]

It's also not the answer, though...although it is a terribly good way of avoiding the question.

So, someone makes a statement.

Someone else says "Really? So how's that, then?"

Person 1 can either choose to substantiate his statement, by (eg) providing evidence to support it, or not substantiate it, by (eg) suggesting that Person 2 go and do his own research.

There's nothing wrong with either approach, but Person 1 is not in a position to take it amiss if Person 2 continues to be critical of his theory - until he has attempted to substantiate it, Person 2 owes him no obligation to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Otherwise it's just too easy for people to fling assertions around and insist they're as good as fact until someone has gone to the trouble of doing enough research to repudiate them. And, of course, it is inevitable that you can do all the research you like, but if you come back to someone like Person 1 with the fruits of your endeavours, they'll only tell you it's the wrong evidence anyway.

If someone wants to make a point, they're going to have to substantiate it, at least in a critical community like this.

It's not worth it. There's some decent discussion of left anti-semitism/differences between student and working class politics going now. Do you really want to get sidetracked by arguing about standards of proof with an entrenched conspiracy theorist?

 

[DrRingDing]

Oh for those halcyon days free from anti-semitism in the years before 1945 eh?

Come now. The first Labour leader since fuck knows when to stand up to Israeli war crimes? The global call for the BDS movement? The fear of Israel of being hit in the pockets. Many leading BDS campaigners in the UK are also leading lights in Momentum? Plus that creepy arse wipe Mark Regev as the newly installed Israeli Ambassador?

Israel is taking BDS very seriously. Having a major nation such as the UK under a pro-Palestinian pro-BDS administration would be a very dangerous precedent. One that must be defeated.

Turn those spurious claims up to 11.

 

[squirrelp]

It's also not the answer, though...although it is a terribly good way of avoiding the question.

Mate a question has to be asked before it can be said to have been avoided. Respectfully, I don't think you were following the exchange.

 

[mojo pixy]

Ah but ViolentPanda any truthseeker worth his salt knows that the phrase 'conspiracy theories' was introduced by the CIA along with the propaganda strategies for dealing with those who believe them in a 1967 memo.

In 1967, the CIA Created the Label "Conspiracy Theorists" ... to Attack Anyone Who Challenges the "Official" Narrative | Zero Hedge

Thats a right wing ayn randist site that promoted an isis video as a good background on the gold standard.

Also, it's not actually true.

 

[frogwoman]

Also, it's not actually true.

no
Really

 

[mojo pixy]

I know, right?
It is a good link though.

 

[redsquirrel]

an outrage.

Just think how treelover would be unable to source any of the material needed for his posts if everyone was to do this . What would we do!

 

[agricola]

Come now. The first Labour leader since fuck knows when to stand up to Israeli war crimes? The global call for the BDS movement? The fear of Israel of being hit in the pockets. Many leading BDS campaigners in the UK are also leading lights in Momentum? Plus that creepy arse wipe Mark Regev as the newly installed Israeli Ambassador?

Israel is taking BDS very seriously. Having a major nation such as the UK under a pro-Palestinian pro-BDS administration would be a very dangerous precedent. One that must be defeated.

Turn those spurious claims up to 11.

To be fair, ever since Regev was appointed Ambassador he has been on the TV a lot less. This is something to be cherished, I feel.

 

[William of Walworth]

BDS movement

I had to Google that ... shows how much I know

 

[William of Walworth]

I just wish it would all go away.

So do I ...

 

[Kaka Tim]

I had to Google that ... shows how much I know

same. although i guessed that it probably did not refer to bondage and sado-masochism

 

[toblerone3]

Labour needs to stop arguing about all this shit and start attacking the Tories disastrous Brexit plans.

 

[squirrelp]

Also, it's not actually true.

I stand corrected on that one. thank you for the link.

 

[hash tag]

I just wish it would all go away.

Agree, but the tories have notched things up quite a bit, now calling Labour the nasty party! Now calling themselves the party of the workers. Now standing in the middle ground Etc.

 

[killer b]

Agree, but the tories have notched things up quite a bit, now calling Labour the nasty party!

That's really turning the heat up.

 

[inva]

Agree, but the tories have notched things up quite a bit, now calling Labour the nasty party! Now calling themselves the party of the workers. Now standing in the middle ground Etc.

they've been claiming the middle ground and the workers party thing for ages eg link. not really a new thing.

 

[hash tag]

I didnt say they hadn't ie blue collar party, considerate consertavism Etc. But May has really gone for it again

 

[inva]

I didnt say they hadn't ie blue collar party, considerate consertavism Etc. But May has really gone for it again

they can go for it all they like, the question is can it gloss over the reality of what they have to do in office and undermine what is driving right wing populism? I don't think it can.

 

[DrRingDing]

To be fair, ever since Regev was appointed Ambassador he has been on the TV a lot less. This is something to be cherished, I feel.

What's he signing off behind the scenes? I think we can see the fruits of his Labour.

 

[hash tag]

they can go for it all they like, the question is can it gloss over the reality of what they have to do in office and undermine what is driving right wing populism? I don't think it can.

That goes for the majority of people on these boards, but it's not about us it's about those who cannot see behind the gloss or headlines.

 

[butchersapron]

That goes for the majority of people on these boards, but it's not about us it's about those who cannot see behind the gloss or headlines.

This sort of thing you mean?

 

[bimble]

Here's owen jones showing off about how he predicted the content of Theresa May's speech 6 years ago. There’s a fight over working-class voters. Labour must not lose it | Owen Jones

 

[inva]

That goes for the majority of people on these boards, but it's not about us it's about those who cannot see behind the gloss or headlines.

who are those who can't see behind it?

 

[teqniq]

To be fair, ever since Regev was appointed Ambassador he has been on the TV a lot less. This is something to be cherished, I feel.

Erm... but the papers are another thing it would seem

Remember Cable Street, when the labour movement and Zionists were allies | Mark Regev