Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[redsquirrel]

The PLP have said that they want elected Shadow Cabinet positions, beyond that there's been no move to re-introduce them.

 

[DrRingDing]

The PLP have said that they want elected Shadow Cabinet positions, beyond that there's been no move to re-introduce them.

What the procedure for proposals at NEC meetings?

 

[two sheds]

whatever the NEC wants

 

[Duncan2]

I think they know that there would be an immediate mass exodus of party members.

 

[two sheds]

yep that's what they're probably after

 

[Vintage Paw]

They've voted on it and won the vote (just amongst the PLP) and in order to become party policy it must be ratified by NEC and conference. I don't know if it has officially been put on the order of business for either yet.

 

[DaveCinzano]

an immediate mass exodus of party members.

Movement of Jer people

 

[Wilf]

Movement of Jer people

Babylon is Bernie.

 

[billy_bob]

Babylon is Bernie.

Jarvis and Reeves in the street
fighting the nation with their guns and ammunition

 

[timeforanother]

If anyone does nowhere man i'll get a bit angry

 

[DaveCinzano]

Shots from both sides

 

[J Ed]

Corbyn to give members power to choose shadow team and policies

 

[brogdale]

​

 

[brogdale]

I'll try again....quite an interesting presentation...

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

​

Where are all the other labour leaders?

 

[brogdale]

Where are all the other labour leaders?

Further back in time.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Further back in time.

Not really that informative then. You may as well say "Here are a list of people that are not Tony Blair. None of them won an election. Corbyn isn't Tony Blair either. Therefore Corbyn won't win an election".

 

[brogdale]

Not really that informative then. You may as well say "Here are a list of people that are not Tony Blair. None of them won an election. Corbyn isn't Tony Blair either. Therefore Corbyn won't win an election".

Not really; every one of them, except Corbyn are ex-leaders and can't change/improve their ratings. Corbyn has the opportunity to do so.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Not really; every one of them, except Corbyn are ex-leaders and can't change/improve their ratings. Corbyn has the opportunity to do so.

True. So the graphic is even less informative than I first thought.

 

[brogdale]

True. So the graphic is even less informative than I first thought.

OK, as you wish. Too pished to argue...just thought it might be of some interest to some??

 

[two sheds]

Fair play, although have any other of the leaders experienced a revolt like the one Corbyn and the labour membership's had?

 

[brogdale]

Fair play, although have any other of the leaders experienced a revolt like the one Corbyn and the labour membership's had?

No. Given that, his personal performance is remarkably creditable...really.

 

[billy_bob]

It is interesting - but only as a rather small piece of the picture. Another caveat - it says 'no-one has won a GE outside this zone' - but four people who haven't are partially within that zone. Three of those four are more in it than not, including Miliband, whose bid for the top job was woeful. Plus one of four made the rather conclusive error of dying before his ability to win a GE could be tested.

All that suggests to me that if there is a straightforward explanatory factor for what leads Labour leaders to win/not win general elections, it's not on that graph.

 

[brogdale]

It is interesting - but only as a rather small piece of the picture. Another caveat - it says 'no-one has won a GE outside this zone' - but four people who haven't are partially within that zone. Three of those four are more in it than not, including Miliband, whose bid for the top job was woeful. Plus one of four made the rather conclusive error of dying before his ability to win a GE could be tested.

All that suggests to me that if there is a straightforward explanatory factor for what leads Labour leaders to win/not win general elections, it's not on that graph.

Yep. I think (?) it is essentially graphically superimposing two separate things; one being the first 12 month's ratings and the other being the electoral 'win' parameters. Clearly the two things are often separated by a number of years.

 

[timeforanother]

There isn't a point in socialists that emulate tories to get elected. There a lot of people who aren't in Labour who are glad it isn't all the same right wing agenda,

The graph would change without the PLP antics

 

[brogdale]

There isn't a point in socialists that emulate tories to get elected. There a lot of people who aren't in Labour who are glad it isn't all the same right wing agenda,

The graph would change without the PLP antics

Yeah, but assuming it's been plotted accurately based upon sound polling methodology, it is what it is. That's the fact of Corbyn's polling FWIW.

 

[timeforanother]

Yeah, but assuming it's been plotted accurately based upon sound polling methodology, it is what it is. That's the fact of Corbyn's polling FWIW.

Only now, I hope that we get a mass labour movement that motivates the populace (deliberately lower case). It isn't about one poll now, it is about what might be coming

 

[billy_bob]

There isn't a point in socialists that emulate tories to get elected. There a lot of people who aren't in Labour who are glad it isn't all the same right wing agenda,

That's a fair point of course. But it does underline the dilemma for the part of the Labour party that doesn't just want to be elected whatever it takes: we need a viable, credible, electable opposition now at least as much as we ever have. But really turning the current LP into something worth electing could be the work of a couple of generations at least. I mean, it all sounds great when Corbyn talks about giving the power back to the members but grassroots-up politics will take a very long time to do properly. The problem is, they've got two essential jobs to do - real opposition, and totally overhauling the party - which it doesn't appear possible to do at the same time.

 

[squirrelp]

Came across a nice quote from Ralph Nader. "If you always vote for the lesser of two evils, you will always have evil, and you will always have less".

I kind of think, if democracy is just about firefighting and compromising principles to stop the other mob getting in... well surely it would then be worth looking at alternative systems of governance.

 

[timeforanother]

That's a fair point of course. But it does underline the dilemma for the part of the Labour party that doesn't just want to be elected whatever it takes: we need a viable, credible, electable opposition now at least as much as we ever have. But really turning the current LP into something worth electing could be the work of a couple of generations at least. I mean, it all sounds great when Corbyn talks about giving the power back to the members but grassroots-up politics will take a very long time to do properly. The problem is, they've got two essential jobs to do - real opposition, and totally overhauling the party - which it doesn't appear possible to do at the same time.

Watch this space, I'm not alone