Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Cwmflame]

In other words, you've internalised the narratives that have been constantly spouted by the Labour right, the Tories and their allies in media and have accepted defeat as inevitable. That's the same defeatism I've seen from Labour for the last 35 years. "If we don't do what the papers say, we'll be out of power for generations" is their mantra, but it's predicated on falsehoods. You and those who adopt this line are actively colluding in your own oppression to the extent that you actually welcome 20 years of Tory rule because it vindicates your mistaken beliefs.

I wish I had your wisdom and imagination

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

I wish I had your wisdom and imagination

I wish you did too.

 

[Pickman's model]

I wish I had your wisdom and imagination

you don't really do debate, do you

 

[Pickman's model]

And I'm not Progress, not part of any campaign, not part of the party machine at all. I am just a concerned member of the party, anxious about the prospect of twenty years rule from the right.

how concerned were you between say 1994 and 2010?

 

[killer b]

you don't really do debate, do you

Seems a reasonable response to that particular line of debate tbh.

 

[Pickman's model]

Seems a reasonable response to that particular line of debate tbh.

i am glad you agree with me

 

[two sheds]

I thought I'd seen a list of Smith's voting record and involvement with privatizing the NHS, etc. That would be a fair starting point to compare vs Corbyn.

 

[DotCommunist]

I thought I'd seen a list of Smith's voting record and involvement with privatizing the NHS, etc. That would be a fair starting point to compare vs Corbyn.

obligatory link:
Owen Smith MP, Pontypridd - TheyWorkForYou

 

[Cwmflame]

you don't really do debate, do you

This is a great forum for debate. Everyone is so open minded.

 

[two sheds]

note also: socialists don't live in the real world. That ones pernicious

I missed that, what was the quote?

 

[YouSir]

This is a great forum for debate. Everyone is so open minded.

Grow up.

 

[DotCommunist]

I missed that, what was the quote?

paraphrasing. Socialists lacking worldly experience. Its just a thing that always annoys me because I'd think most socialists are so because they have experience of 'real life'. I think it ties in with the idea that 'socialist ideas are good but in order to enact them we have to be realistic'. Labour hopeful for corby pulled that old chestnut on my ma last GE and it went down hook line and sinker

 

[Cwmflame]

Grow up.

Touched a nerve?

 

[killer b]

probably it can be done without dismissing your opponents as close-minded ideologues too.

 

[Cwmflame]

paraphrasing. Socialists lacking worldly experience. Its just a thing that always annoys me because I'd think most socialists are so because they have experience of 'real life'. I think it ties in with the idea that 'socialist ideas are good but in order to enact them we have to be realistic'. Labour hopeful for corby pulled that old chestnut on my ma last GE and it went down hook line and sinker

I think you're confusing your metaphors

 

[DotCommunist]

I think you're confusing your metaphors

mixing them them ftw. The labour hopefull lost by double, double! the votes of the incumbent. I think he'll be here till he dies or retires tbf

 

[YouSir]

Touched a nerve?

Just added to my endless disappointment with political discourse (or lack of) within portions the Labour Party. Well done.

 

[ska invita]

Until Corbyn I never knew that there were so many people who called themselves socialists in the Labour Party on the basis of 'socialism is what socialist parties do, and Labour is a socialist party therefore whatever I do I am a socialist'. Yet there are loads of the fuckers.

Its been an eye opener - i knew there were loads of them, but for some reason i didnt realise it was all of 80% of them!

If we can't convince the whole of the party, how will we convince the whole country !

Other way round:
I think the PLP are harder to convince than the country.
They're so desperate to keep their jobs, and they're so entrenched in their view of how the system should be, that there's no room for change. The public conscience is much more fluid... In fact it's hungry for change.

 

[Cwmflame]

Its been an eye opener - i knew there were loads of them, but for some reason i didnt realise it was all of 80% of them!
Other way round:
I think the PLP are harder to convince than the country.
They're so desperate to keep their jobs, and they're so entrenched in their view of how the system should be, that there's no room for change. The public conscience is much more fluid... In fact it's hungry for change.

Do you feel it's yearning to go down the progressive route though, towards socialism? Many are lurching right. Have the left got the numbers to combat it?

 

[killer b]

It’s difficult to say – do you think a lurch towards realistic centrist politics-as-usual is going to work?

 

[Cwmflame]

It’s difficult to say – do you think a lurch towards realistic centrist politics-as-usual is going to work?

Slightly left of that! Keeping the tories out whilst trying to implement it would be a start. You can do more good in power than opposition I reckon

 

[killer b]

Wasn’t that Liz Kendal’s pitch last year?

 

[DrRingDing]

This is a great forum for debate. Everyone is so open minded.

You sound a bit like Owen Smith.

 

[Pickman's model]

You can do more good in power than opposition I reckon

yes. worked for blair, didn't it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Cwmflame

 

[Cwmflame]

That depends on if you think there was nothing good that came out of that time. I know it was better for my area than the preceeding 18 years. Granted it was a million miles from perfect.

 

[DrRingDing]

That depends on if you think there was nothing good that came out of that time. I know it was better for my area than the preceeding 18 years. Granted it was a million miles from perfect.

Iraq Body Count

Were the crumbs worth it?

 

[Pickman's model]

That depends on if you think there was nothing good that came out of that time. I know it was better for my area than the preceeding 18 years. Granted it was a million miles from perfect.

yeh but i don't suppose you live in kosovo or iraq. sure britain's better after pissing away a ton of money on blowing people up because the americans said to.

 

[Cwmflame]

I was there protesting that with the rest of you, even got myself interviewed on the protest in Cardiff in the local paper, if you want to verify, so I'm not going to argue that. It's the biggest source of shame for our party that I've ever experienced.

 

[Cwmflame]

Cwmflame
View attachment 91021
View attachment 91022

What are you trying to say with these attachments, or is it just highlighting Corbyn's credentials? I'm not trying to deny them.