butchersapron
Bring back hanging
New political strategy - recklessly attack the enemy on grounds of their choosing.
Jeremy Corbyn's time is up
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nuffsaid
But this goes up to 11
It does show all the abilities or lack of as I mentioned earlier, if you watch it it's obvious. Most people probably don't give a shit week by week, but the media will report it and over the course of time it goes into the drip-drip view that people will use to formulate their view of a PM or an opposition leader. Air time is oxygen to your policies and how you put those across is extremely important. People vote on their perceptions and those perceptions are formulated from all sorts of inputs. Saying there's no problem with Corbyn at PMQs because no-one watches it anyway, or it's not a real debate, is like a child closing their eyes and saying 'you can't see me because I can't see you.'
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No it doesn't. It shows one person trying to manouvere another onto the ground where they can deliver a pre-scripted quip and hope the media choose that 5 seconds to show if they even bother to report it. It demonstrates none of this:
it demonstrates that one side has a lot of people + civil service helping them and the other less so. That's all it is.
I just listed some problems with the media just reports model. Let me ask you do you think that the reporting (with all the things i mentioned above about choice of when to report, various framings and relations to wider politics etc), the drip drip is entirely neutral? It must be to make your point have any power - a good performance reported neutrally, maybe not immediately noticed but a consistent performance will be reported neutrally and consistently leading to a positive drip drip in the public perception via the media. Where you been the last 20 years?
Of course people vote on their perceptions (or at least that's part of their calculations), that's precisely why you won't get the above as the media are straining to provide a certain perception (consciously or unconsciously in the case of individuals - rather openly in the case of the wider organisations - see the Guardian recently saying yeah, we're not reporting honestly, so what?) regardless of what, say corbyn, does.
nuffsaid
But this goes up to 11
Just see what was in front of you for goodness sake. If you can't then mind your step on the way out.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
When I was 16, 17 or so I went to Parliament as part of my Politics A-Level course. We saw PMQs.
It was during the Poll Tax.
I left having had it made starkly clear to me that the braying, jeering MPs really did inhabit a different world to me.
I returned to my constituency and helped set up an anti-poll tax group of sorts. Next time I saw my MP I was ambushing him with a surprise protest at my school.
politics vs. Politics.
It was during the Poll Tax.
I left having had it made starkly clear to me that the braying, jeering MPs really did inhabit a different world to me.
I returned to my constituency and helped set up an anti-poll tax group of sorts. Next time I saw my MP I was ambushing him with a surprise protest at my school.
politics vs. Politics.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What just neutrally happened to be in front of you for 10 seconds on the 9pm news etc
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
The "Westminster game" bears no relation or, indeed, relevance to what's happening outside the rarefied world of Parliament. As for being "Leader of the Opposition", Corbyn has been more successful in that role than his immediate predecessor, who failed to oppose anything of significance (the bombing of Syria being a notable exception). He told the media that he would offer "constructive opposition", which translated means "I will oppose fuck all".
ska invita
back on the other side
Really curious what the public make of it. In all honesty I was surprised and disgusted by Mays performance, and I'd expect most people would think Jesus, Who the fuck is running our country now ...
Corbyn looked dignified in comparison.... I am biased, but that was a impartial impression. I think May is massively unlikeable, and will become increasingly so with every public performance, if PMQs is anything to go by.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
He does need to work on that side of things - though I don't think its the case that he is simply rubbish at it because there are days where he has been really good there (Cameron's last PMQs, or the Queens Birthday speech). It should also be pointed out that, even if he was regularly smashing Cameron and May, its doubtful that the media would report it honestly or that most of the PLP would get behind him.
billy_bob
Air of bewilderment model's own
We're all seeing a combination of what we're shown, what we want to see and what actually happened. The only way to see through that blur is to be aware of and alert to that fact. It's rather naive to imagine that the camera is ever just plonked down in the right place so that we can all see 'what's in front of us'.
nuffsaid
But this goes up to 11
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
What you see is different depending on how it's presented though, voiceover introduction: "May wipes the floor with Corbyn" versus "May refuses to condemn Johnson's racist 'picaninny' slur"
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I presume our loyal Labour MPs behind Corbyn are leaving him to fight it on his own, usually you have a constant barrage of heckling to back up the point.
The bit I saw where May didn't answer the question he remarked on that. I'd like to have see him address her statement about stop and search, though, but that is presumably going to need his 'people' researching her stock answers for suitable replies.
The bit I saw where May didn't answer the question he remarked on that. I'd like to have see him address her statement about stop and search, though, but that is presumably going to need his 'people' researching her stock answers for suitable replies.
nuffsaid
But this goes up to 11
That's just picking out 2 items though. The impression across the whole PMQs is what is important. I agree that Johnson's remark was horrendous, but it could have been pressed home more, she didn't answer it, so he should have just kept asking her or highlight the fact she's refusing to answer.
Lord Camomile
Yipchaa!
You could, but how many do? I'd be willing to bet a large portion of the public still consume politics through headlines and soundbites, and the echo chamber of their own social media.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
"I refer the Honourable Gentleman to the answer I have just given."
My impression is that most people consume politics through their friends.
Ole
Well-Known Member
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Here's the entrance to a keep Corbyn rally in London tonight. Quite telling.
Only if you're a fuckwit, because venues rarely have control over anything but their immediate forecourt, certainly not the public highway (AKA "the pavement").
Interesting that you try to imply that Corbyn is in cahoots with the rape apologists, though.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Absolutely. If the game you want to play is winning power in a Westminster system, you are always going to be up against largely hostile media. You are also going to find your efforts are inevitably funnelled into such absurdities as PMQs. That's the path you've chosen. That Corbyn has been undermined by an intensely vile PLP, to the point where Labour is barely functioning as a party, shouldn't stop you making judgements on his performance. He delivers on compassion, on seriousness and shows a strength under fire. But there's plenty he isn't managing to do, particularly setting out a vision or a strategy for reconnecting with the working class. This is the bigger thing, not pmqs, but it would be daft to suggest he does pmqs well.
To be honest, his claim of establishing a 'gentler politics' might have some resonance if everything was lined up in his favour, but the PLP have made sure that won't happen.
ska invita
back on the other side
Yeah if they were a part of it they'd have had stalls in the lobby... Stalls outside means hanger-on
teqniq
DisMembered
I can entirely see your point but Congolesa Rice is very incisive in her put downs which obviously I know, is what made me laugh. She took the piss out of a QC the other day who blocked her in very short order. Managing to leave a QC short of words, quite a feat. That was a classic too.
I can't even laugh at that. The sorry excuse for a human being. Fucking CUNT.
However you can't see them if you are using Tapatalk on a phone anyway
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Yep. Friends, workmates, neighbours...
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Consume really isn't the right word though.
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