Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[wheelie_bin]

according to the news Jez now faces a legal challenge from a wealthy party donor
Labour leadership: Donor to challenge Corbyn ballot ruling - BBC News
he's another one who uses anti Semitic smear tactics....
Ignorant, Godless, Hateful - Corbyn's contempt for Jews is a disgrace
.......and no stranger to vile threats against rivals himself
Labour candidate accused of launching 'vile rant' at political rival

This makes me so cross, I can't stand this conflation of Israel with Zionism. He says "try replacing... ‘Zionists can’t cope with anyone supporting rights for Palestine’". Ok, I'll try 'Hezbollah can't cope with anyone supporting rights for Israel." Yeah, true. Next question?

Is buying votes legal?

No idea, depends what the rulebook says about it. It's illegal in public elections, but parties are a different animal.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Isn't paying £25 quid buying a vote, anyway?

 

[two sheds]

it could be spun as buying votes though, not sure it's a good idea?

 

[two sheds]

Isn't paying £25 quid buying a vote, anyway?

true but this could be said to be buying a vote for someone else

 

[DownwardDog]

I notice Owen Smith has "made demanding another Brexit referendum a key policy point."

That is totally going to win over so many working-class Labour voters outwith London.

Surely it's more of a short term measure aimed at Labour members (who were majority Remain)?

He can win the WWC back by offering them a referendum on the return of capital punishment just before the GE.

 

[brogdale]

I notice Owen Smith has "made demanding another Brexit referendum a key policy point."

That is totally going to win over so many working-class Labour voters outwith London.

But he's not even actually committing to that demand when you look at what he said....

he added, the public wanted to know what deal would be struck, adding: “And then we should give them another chance. That does mean a second referendum or a general election when the terms are clear. The Labour government should be committing to that.”

 

[chilango]

I don't think that's fair criticism. Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn't. The consequence of this line of argument is that subject to genuine bullying she could not complain about it and be believed.

Nah. I'm not having that.

If she feels she is subject to genuine bullying or intimidation then of course she should complain and of course she should be believed.

But multiple news programmes are not the people to make those complaints to. The police and/or Labour Party disciplinary structures are.

Publicly and repeatedly confirming that the alleged bullying is working is not an effective response and should not be encouraged imho.

 

[Rob Ray]

But still, a defeat for the Blairites is a political defeat for neo liberalism in general . A strong challenge to this " common sense , no alternative" consensus that solidified over decades and ripped the heart out of everyone .

No it isn't. It's a Westminster bubble defeat inflicted by people who are already hostile to neoliberalism (ie lefties). And it possibly opens some space in the media in which Corbs can talk about austerity, framed at all times by a press corps that consistently says he's talking madness.

At best it opens the possibility of a relatively mild challenge to some aspects of neoliberalism at some point down the line by a woefully inadequate political grouping which is yet to provide a plan of how that might happen in the absence of y'know, a mass working class movement, or indeed any leverage of any kind against market pressure. Followed in all likelihood by the project's total defeat, prompting the collapse of left Parliamentarism and the rise of far-right demagogues - as has happened repeatedly on the continent and looks set to happen imminently in France.

Because like it or not there's not a hell of a lot else going on on the left at the minute .

I fucking hate this line. An alternative might be "oh everything else is shit therefore I may as well waste loads of time on something that looks vaguely popular, never mind whether it's actually got a long-term future or has any strategic value." If you believe in the project fair enough, but don't fuck off everyone else's hard work, modest as it might or might not be, to lend credibility to your own actions.

Some of the issues Corbyn can start putting into the mainstream are definitely worthwhile .

Yeah because no-one was criticising austerity before now. Never heard it in "the mainstream." Thank fuck there's some old boy talking about it at the dispatch box eh? That'll make the difference. Watch the masses rise up!

It's up to leftists to take up that ball and run with it once that happens . Outside of the labour party obviously .

Indeed leftists should try to actually organise outside the Labour Party. Rather than getting sidetracked by the bloody Labour Party. Again.

I do t believe Corbyn himself will manage to change society but he has the potential to be a catalyst for change by possibly changing some of the rules and successfully challenging various assumptions .

He won't be a catalyst either. He riles up social democrats to get involved with electoralism, there's no swing towards mass direct action going on here, nor does it look like there will be. The most exciting thing to have happened in actively organising working people to have come out of this so far is a possible uptick in union applications - an unintended artifact of rightist gerrymandering.

Even if all he accomplishes is to make it abundantly clear to anyone who might have faith in that system changing anything , that it's completely fucking rigged to ensure change doesn't happen .

Everyone knows that already. What he's doing is fostering an unwarranted hope in the possibility that waiting four years for a ballot is all people need to do about it. Like Nick Clegg did, or Obama did, or Alexis Tspiras. These people pop up every year. Bernie Sanders has "proved" the US Democrats' system is rigged, but you watch, there'll be another of his ilk along soon enough and it'll be "this time guys, this time our candidate will topple the shills."

 

[Casually Red]

Nah. I'm not having that.

If she feels she is subject to genuine bullying or intimidation then of course she should complain and of course she should be believed.

But multiple news programmes are not the people to make those complaints to. The police and/or Labour Party disciplinary structures are.

Publicly and repeatedly confirming that the alleged bullying is working is not an effective response and should not be encouraged imho.

She's denouncing him for trying to out her ..and then subject her to intimidation..by trying to stop her from voting against him in secret. Which he failed to prevent . And now having voted against him in secret ....and failed to defeat him...she immediately plasters herself and her "secret" decision all over the fucking media ?
She's a wind up merchant . Taking everyone for a ride and turning the tears on like a tap . Purely because she failed to defeat him in secret .
Maximum secrecy didn't work, now she wants maximum publicity for the very same ignoble end . She failed to upend democracy in secret .Now she seeks to delegitimise it by publicly turning the tears on .

Itd also be interesting to know whether she was one of those scabs who stayed behind to take that membership vote . Because this seems like a very opportune distraction from even further outrageous behaviour .

 

[kabbes]

Its Labour Business (previously Labour Finance and Industry Group) all the way for me. I could wear that suit I went to the funeral in.

Our Role

LFIG’s values
The financial sector is key to sustaining this vision for the UK economy to lend to SMEs to create wealth, employment and generate tax revenues to keep the nation’s finances afloat.

Finance and industry is the ultimate source of funding for all government activity, enabling us to look after the health and welfare of our society, creating a bastion of widespread opportunity

Trickle-down is alive and well, eh?

And let us not forget

Nevertheless, government can still play an important role. We at LFIG believe that it is the role of government to manage markets to create the right environment to foster sustainable wealth creation, job opportunities and consumer protection.

Sustainable wealth creation!

It would be pretty cool to use this bastion of Blairism as the vehicle to bring down the Blairite candidate.

£48 subscription is more expensive than the £25 option, mind. Although if you are under 31, it is only £24 -- save yourself a whole £1!

 

[Casually Red]

according to the news Jez now faces a legal challenge from a wealthy party donor
Labour leadership: Donor to challenge Corbyn ballot ruling - BBC News
he's another one who uses anti Semitic smear tactics....
Ignorant, Godless, Hateful - Corbyn's contempt for Jews is a disgrace
.......and no stranger to vile threats against rivals himself
Labour candidate accused of launching 'vile rant' at political rival

A right charmer by the sounds of it

Can a top showbiz agent turned Labour candidate keep his cool on the campaign trail?

 

[Wilf]

Isn't paying £25 quid buying a vote, anyway?

Well, if you paid to be a member since January, the only way to vote now seems to be to become a registered supporter as well. The customer facing Blairites probably see it as adding items to your bundle.

 

[Ole]

 

[kabbes]

"Anti-democrats"? Is this being levelled against the people who are seeing an attempted coup from a small group of MPs against the guy that got voted in with twice the score of his next best rival ?

 

[Casually Red]

Anti democrats possibly in the sense that " democracy isn't working " . They've gone and broken it, these bloody awful people who keep voting wrong . No wonder all these good people keep breaking down in tears .
Eagle, Margaret Beckett, joHanna wotsername, Smeeth. Even Blair was getting emotional the other day.
It's Labours Trail of Tears .

 

[butchersapron]

Following chilango 's excellent post above there's probably an interesting discussion to be had about active anti-capitalists feeling 'drawn in'. Politically, there are a few parallels and obvious differences to the formation, growth and ultimate disappointments of Syriza - very different as a coming together of existing parties, in a PR system, but one way in which a centre of gravity shaped up amid austerity. Even bearing in mind Syriza's climbdowns, Corbynism is pretty thin by comparison. But, following Chilango's post, the interesting bit is the psychological, the way all kinds of leftists and even anarchos are rationalising something they wouldn't remotely have considered doing 18 months ago. You can see people you know in real life or on facebook thinking it through, not really changing their views, but doing it anyway. Like others, I'm not having a go and it also reflects the weakness of class struggle outside of Labour. Trouble is, in the absence of becoming something other than a social democratic parliamentary party, the new labour left will be forced to play to the rules and logic of being exactly that.

I'm not. Fuck that. I was at a barbecue Saturday night and the general tone was denial of previous support for Corbyn in the leadership election and a sort of don't bring up it up vibe. Not seeing many here in bristol playing the game this time around.

edit: of course, that's my social group not bristol as a whole

 

[wheelie_bin]

It's been shown frequently that people do what you want when you call them idiots. Excellent tactic.

 

[redsquirrel]

But he's not even actually committing to that demand when you look at what he said....

​

Has he even managed to get 50 signatures yet? I keep on seeing all this stuff about him standing but I've yet to see anything that actually says that he's made the requirement to get on the ballot.

 

[Balbi]

Looks like the Labour NEC have banned newly joined union affiliates from voting. Twenty five quid or nothing.

Blimey

 

[wheelie_bin]

Looks like the Labour NEC have banned newly joined union affiliates from voting. Twenty five quid or nothing.

Blimey

How have they done that, did somebody rewrite the minutes of the meeting, like they rewrite every other fucking event to suit their story?

 

[J Ed]

How have they done that, did somebody rewrite the minutes of the meeting, like they rewrite every other fucking event to suit their story?

What do words even mean really?

 

[agricola]

Has he even managed to get 50 signatures yet? I keep on seeing all this stuff about him standing but I've yet to see anything that actually says that he's made the requirement to get on the ballot.

Give him time - don't forget it took Eagle more than a fortnight to move from almost standing to standing.

 

[butchersapron]

How have they done that, did somebody rewrite the minutes of the meeting, like they rewrite every other fucking event to suit their story?

I's the procedures cmmtee - so i would expect the full NEC to be able to overrule if it comes to it. The NEC seems to be able to do whatever it likes basically.

Oh look, we're talking about internal labour committees and their struggles. How fab.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Looks like the Labour NEC have banned newly joined union affiliates from voting. Twenty five quid or nothing.

Blimey

Seriously? You have a link for this?

 

[butchersapron]

Seriously? You have a link for this?

Have a look at @LOS_Fisher

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Have a look at @LOS_Fisher

What a bunch of pricks although I don't know why I'm surprised really.

 

[SpookyFrank]

At this point I hope Labour does split so the right wing with their zero grassroots support and zero public credibility can be annihilated at a general election. Maybe then they'll get the message, but then again maybe not. They'll probably just try and change the rules of elections so that it's no longer who gets the most votes, but who really feels like they ought to be in power.

 

[andysays]

Has he even managed to get 50 signatures yet? I keep on seeing all this stuff about him standing but I've yet to see anything that actually says that he's made the requirement to get on the ballot.

When (if) he does, we can expect an announcement something like this one, made on Monday when Eagle eventually got round to making her bid official

Labour's general secretary, Iain McNicol, says: "I have now received sufficient nominations to trigger a contest for the position of Leader of the Labour Party. I will now ask the chair of the National Executive Committee to convene a meeting to confirm arrangements for an election.”

Personally, I reckon Smith is frantically looking round for a new team to re-design his campaign launch press conference backdrop before he makes his play...

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Looks like the Labour NEC have banned newly joined union affiliates from voting. Twenty five quid or nothing.

Blimey

For fuck's sake. I coughed up however much it was to join Labour, found out I couldn't vote, then coughed up some more to join Unite, and now I find out I still can't vote. Wankers.

 

[butchersapron]

Smith - and anyone else, thinking of you andy - has ages to get his noms in. Does anyone know if each MP is only allowed a single nomination? I know they have to do a proper letter and actually turn up to conference, but does that mean there's a limited supply? Suddenly become more valuable if so.