Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[Patteran]

Ignorant (of me) as it is I saw a picture a while back of an old march where the banner read 'Vote Labour with a Communist Group in Parliament', or words to that effect. Not that it practically means anything at the moment and Labour isn't going to take any really radical shifts but an amenable party which has a strong voice for more concrete Left wing stuff from the ground up (and a say for normal members) is something to aim for at least.

This one?

 

[YouSir]

This one?


View attachment 89568

That's the one.

 

[DotCommunist]

its great that bullying has become something openly unnaceptable, school home or workplace. But these cynical shits are just using it.
Really can't believe they have suspended all CLP activity. I really hope some entrenched CLP egos get the raving and go c-byn just for the cheek of having been told to STFU by the PLP

Chilangos right though, the enemy is stil with us even if we can see a labour left victory. Remember thier record in power. Just want killary and all the coup by beaurocracy cunts to die in a fire now.

 

[cantsin]

Truth re: Tessa Jowells ridiculous homophobia vs Angela Eagle @ Wallasey CLP lies : Homophobic slurs against Angela Eagle in Wallasey? I've only experienced the opposite

 

[Casually Red]

Following chilango 's excellent post above there's probably an interesting discussion to be had about active anti-capitalists feeling 'drawn in'. Politically, there are a few parallels and obvious differences to the formation, growth and ultimate disappointments of Syriza - very different as a coming together of existing parties, in a PR system, but one way in which a centre of gravity shaped up amid austerity. Even bearing in mind Syriza's climbdowns, Corbynism is pretty thin by comparison. But, following Chilango's post, the interesting bit is the psychological, the way all kinds of leftists and even anarchos are rationalising something they wouldn't remotely have considered doing 18 months ago. You can see people you know in real life or on facebook thinking it through, not really changing their views, but doing it anyway. Like others, I'm not having a go and it also reflects the weakness of class struggle outside of Labour. Trouble is, in the absence of becoming something other than a social democratic parliamentary party, the new labour left will be forced to play to the rules and logic of being exactly that.

But still, a defeat for the Blairites is a political defeat for neo liberalism in general . A strong challenge to this " common sense , no alternative" consensus that solidified over decades and ripped the heart out of everyone . It's an angry and vocal public rejection of it and has the potential to remove some of the levers of power at their disposal. There's a window to change the narrative opening up . Because like it or not there's not a hell of a lot else going on on the left at the minute .
Some of the issues Corbyn can start putting into the mainstream are definitely worthwhile . It's up to leftists to take up that ball and run with it once that happens . Outside of the labour party obviously . Plainly if people constrain themselves to this type of parliamentary activity then they're on a hiding to nothing, and will shortly be back to the square one of power for powers sake and the same self defeating game . But there's still a potential for some change here . A change in set in stone " truths " and false assumptions about the neo liberal project . I do t believe Corbyn himself will manage to change society but he has the potential to be a catalyst for change by possibly changing some of the rules and successfully challenging various assumptions .
Corbyn or Labour obviously shouldn't be the limit of any socialists horizons but
there are definite advantages to be had in his victories . Even if only slight ones.
Even if all he accomplishes is to make it abundantly clear to anyone who might have faith in that system changing anything , that it's completely fucking rigged to ensure change doesn't happen .

 

[Cid]

its great that bullying has become something openly unnaceptable, school home or workplace. But these cynical shits are just using it.
Really can't believe they have suspended all CLP activity. I really hope some entrenched CLP egos get the raving and go c-byn just for the cheek of having been told to STFU by the PLP

Chilangos right though, the enemy is stil with us even if we can see a labour left victory. Remember thier record in power. Just want killary and all the coup by beaurocracy cunts to die in a fire now.

Sadly the death by fire Killary could usher in might be less discriminating.

 

[Casually Red]

If political opponents had threatened me to the point that I was repeatedly physically shaking at the thought of it, and that I felt I needed to resort to secret ballots to protect me then the last thing I'd do is appear on a series of national news bulletins broadcasting how badly these threats had hit me.

I guess Baxter is just braver than me.

Nobody even knew who she was before she went on the telly and radio . And you daren't challenge her for lying because she'll only start fucking crying again at the drop of a hat .

 

[squirrelp]

If political opponents had threatened me to the point that I was repeatedly physically shaking at the thought of it, and that I felt I needed to resort to secret ballots to protect me then the last thing I'd do is appear on a series of national news bulletins broadcasting how badly these threats had hit me.

I guess Baxter is just braver than me.

I don't think that's fair criticism. Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn't. The consequence of this line of argument is that subject to genuine bullying she could not complain about it and be believed.

I think the point is that she can't whine because Corbyn countered a fixing of the proceedings against him with some legal hardball and resolute but fair defence of his position, she received a few emails of which I'm sure only a tiny minority were actually out of order, seems she publicised her email herself, and you know maybe a thick skin is called for at times for politicians

 

[Casually Red]

Frankie Boyle recently pointed out the above has been scientifically proven to be a load of old bollocks . The Brits have nearly all turned into gibbering mentalists at the drop of a hat .

It's all gorn maaaad .

 

[coley]

Frankie Boyle recently pointed out the above has been scientifically proven to be a load of old bollocks . The Brits have nearly all turned into gibbering mentalists at the drop of a hat .

It's all gorn maaaad .

We lost it when Diana got offed, the only winners since then has been the florists.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

for anyone pissed off about the restrictions on new-ish members voting - some suggestions via tweeter today that legal advice is being sought about challenging the NEC decision.

so may be worth not tearing up membership cards / sending them back with a nasty note just quite yet.

momentum also saying they will offer advice on how to register, either via the £ 25 scheme, or via unions / affiliated organisations and so on.

'saving labour' (i'm sure they were encouraging people to join the party a few days ago) is offering the chance to add your e-mail address to their mailing list which will apparently "make a difference"

 

[NoBystander]

it;s why I like the IWCA's view of the need to orient your politics towards the working class instead of to the left. the left is nowhere and the labour party is a dead end, but the working class is still adapting, learning, fighting. if it really wants to be relevant the left has to see it and learn too.

Momentum needs to take a leaf out of the IWCAs book. Develop a real power base beyond the CLPs.

 

[NoBystander]

Yep numbers 3 and 4 could be flatly contradictory.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

1 is very ambiguous

 

[coley]

Momentum needs to take a leaf out of the IWCAs book. Develop a real power base beyond the CLPs.

Dream on, the CLP needs to get a power base from 'the people' something that might actually be happening.

 

[belboid]

That's the one.

Lenin had an amusingly ludicrous misunderstanding of how British elections and the Labour Party worked, in left wing communism, communists didn't even have to be elected to get a seat, supposedly. Poor lamb.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

This is amazingly pathetic

Tearful Labour official slams Corbyn, 13/07/2016, World at One - BBC Radio 4

Is Johanna Baxter actually this upset? If so I feel sorry for her, she is obviously out of her depth and shouldn't be put in situations where... well I don't know, she has to talk to people? If not, what a manipulative nasty piece of work.

Jesus that's fucking amazing. I get threats of legal action on a near weekly basis about not paying TV licence but I don't have a 5 minute cry fest every time I get told 'we've opened an investigation' and 'we're sending goons round for a visit'

Fuck it I'm gonna vote but not paying 25 quid. I'm a part time worker in a shop so therefore skint. What's the cheapest and most amusing way I can sign up to vote? I've seen many options but not sure what's the cheapest and easiest way. I've got a BSc so I can do science and shit so does that mean I can be a labour scientist and cook up insane social engineering projects for Comrade Corbyn's new union of deformed workers states (Formerly the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland)?

 

[wheelie_bin]

Jesus that's fucking amazing. I get threats of legal action on a near weekly basis about not paying TV licence but I don't have a 5 minute cry fest every time I get told 'we've opened an investigation' and 'we're sending goons round for a visit'

Fuck it I'm gonna vote but not paying 25 quid. I'm a part time worker in a shop so therefore skint. What's the cheapest and most amusing way I can sign up to vote? I've seen many options but not sure what's the cheapest and easiest way. I've got a BSc so I can do science and shit so does that mean I can be a labour scientist and cook up insane social engineering projects for Comrade Corbyn's new union of deformed workers states (Formerly the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland)?

The scientists turned out to not want to play. Some other affiliated groups could follow suit if they're inundated. Unions presumably aren't amusing enough. Momentum have said something about helping people with cost, but also less amusing.

Given that the coup was supposedly based on him not trying hard enough during Brexit, you might sneak in through "Labour Movement for Europe"? Or, join the Fabian Society and bring us news from the dark side too (plus they'll definitely still register, thinking you're an anti). List is here: Affiliated organisations.

 

[Wilf]

Jesus that's fucking amazing. I get threats of legal action on a near weekly basis about not paying TV licence but I don't have a 5 minute cry fest every time I get told 'we've opened an investigation' and 'we're sending goons round for a visit'

Fuck it I'm gonna vote but not paying 25 quid. I'm a part time worker in a shop so therefore skint. What's the cheapest and most amusing way I can sign up to vote? I've seen many options but not sure what's the cheapest and easiest way. I've got a BSc so I can do science and shit so does that mean I can be a labour scientist and cook up insane social engineering projects for Comrade Corbyn's new union of deformed workers states (Formerly the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland)?

Can you imagine the furore if Corbyn won by one vote and it turned out to have been someone who signed up for the scientists, but actually had a degree in English Lit? It would cheapen British democracy.

 

[Wilf]

The scientists turned out to not want to play. Some other affiliated groups could follow suit if they're inundated. Unions presumably aren't amusing enough. Momentum have said something about helping people with cost, but also less amusing.

Given that the coup was supposedly based on him not trying hard enough during Brexit, you might sneak in through "Labour Movement for Europe"? Or, join the Fabian Society and bring us news from the dark side too (plus they'll definitely still register, thinking you're an anti). List is here: Affiliated organisations.

Its Labour Business (previously Labour Finance and Industry Group) all the way for me. I could wear that suit I went to the funeral in.

 

[wheelie_bin]

Can you imagine the furore if Corbyn won by one vote and it turned out to have been someone who signed up for the scientists, but actually had a degree in English Lit? It would cheapen British democracy.

Better yet would be Doctor Carrot piping up to the newspapers that it was the Fabians who let him in. Split the splitters.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

The scientists turned out to not want to play. Some other affiliated groups could follow suit if they're inundated. Unions presumably aren't amusing enough. Momentum have said something about helping people with cost, but also less amusing.

Given that the coup was supposedly based on him not trying hard enough during Brexit, you might sneak in through "Labour Movement for Europe"? Or, join the Fabian Society and bring us news from the dark side too (plus they'll definitely still register, thinking you're an anti). List is here: Affiliated organisations.

Boo! The Europe movement aren't playing either. I wonder if I can cunningly slip by Chinese for Labour's security using the alias Barry Chang or better still Christians on the Left by simply using the initials JC

 

[Wilf]

Better yet would be Doctor Carrot piping up to the newspapers that it was the Fabians who let him in. Split the splitters.

In yer face Beatrice Webb!

 

[NoBystander]

Dream on, the CLP needs to get a power base from 'the people' something that might actually be happening.

As a tool to defeat the right within the CLPs. Not give them the CLPs.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Turns out Barry Chang is actually mayor of Cupertino and in the Democratic party so that avenue is now blocked

 

[Sprocket.]

GMB is a separate union not connected with the AEEU which was a product of an amalgamation of the AEU and EEPTU which later morphed into MSF which became a precursor of Unite.

MSF amalgamated with AUEW that emerged as Amicus. Which merged with TGWU to become Unite.

 

[quimcunx]

I tell you what though, I'm about ready for a day without so many politics and not as many news.

 

[cuppa tee]

according to the news Jez now faces a legal challenge from a wealthy party donor
Labour leadership: Donor to challenge Corbyn ballot ruling - BBC News
he's another one who uses anti Semitic smear tactics....
Ignorant, Godless, Hateful - Corbyn's contempt for Jews is a disgrace
.......and no stranger to vile threats against rivals himself
Labour candidate accused of launching 'vile rant' at political rival

 

[inva]

Momentum needs to take a leaf out of the IWCAs book. Develop a real power base beyond the CLPs.

it's an interesting thought but I don't think there's any real prospect of Momentum or Corbynists generally facing outwards in that way. It's in the nature of what they're doing - they're under attack all the time and I can't see that changing. They've got a major fight on their hands even to achieve a measure of control over their own political party and then there's local elections, general elections, it never ends. I think the IWCA themselves came up against some of these problems themselves on a smaller scale. I recently saw a comment on here about Corbyn himself campaigning strongly against them in Islington council elections I think it was... nothing can really be outside the party because that is a challenge to the party.

I'm reminded of something Martin Glaberman said about becoming union officials:

In the case of Johnny Zupan, there was no self-aggrandizement. There was none of this business of, “I’ve got to get off this machine so I’m going to run for office.” Zupan was militant. He was willing to take on the establishment, willing to take on the company. It was not a question of good or bad about Johnny Zupan, but that, if you become a committeeman you have an objective role, and no matter who you are, you are an alternative bureaucrat. There’s a certain objective reality to enforcing the contract that separates union officials from the rank and file. The role creates the person and how you have to function.

That seems to be the obstacle. I wonder, in the event of Corbyn forming a government, Corbyn loyalists controlling councils and being MPs, how long would it be before his supporters/Momentum members found themselves having to defend this or that budget cut, closing a hospital, not fulfilling a promise made in a campaign, all that kind of stuff that's part and parcel of that level of politics. Can you really be honest with people and build outside the party in communities when your whole main project is facing away from that and fixed on different priorities? Once you're about parliamentary politics you're already playing the game by their rules and that shapes you - MPs are not all bad people, but so what?

 

[newbie]

Momentum have said something about helping people with cost, but also less amusing.

Is buying votes legal?

 

[bi0boy]

I notice Owen Smith has "made demanding another Brexit referendum a key policy point."

That is totally going to win over so many working-class Labour voters outwith London.