Jeremy Corbyn's time is up

[two sheds]

What contemporary reports? I'm referencing what the BBC reported here

BBC (along with quite a lot of the media as I recall) hasn't exactly been fair in its reporting of Corbyn

This was his statement:

My statement following the publication of the EHRC report:

“Antisemitism is absolutely abhorrent, wrong and responsible for some of humanity’s greatest crimes. As Leader of the Labour Party I was always determined to eliminate all forms of racism and root out the cancer of antisemitism. I have campaigned in support of Jewish people and communities my entire life and I will continue to do so.

“The EHRC’s report shows that when I became Labour leader in 2015, the Party’s processes for handling complaints were not fit for purpose. Reform was then stalled by an obstructive party bureaucracy. But from 2018, Jennie Formby and a new NEC that supported my leadership made substantial improvements, making it much easier and swifter to remove antisemites. My team acted to speed up, not hinder the process.

“Anyone claiming there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, as there is throughout society, and sometimes it is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left.
“Jewish members of our party and the wider community were right to expect us to deal with it, and I regret that it took longer to deliver that change than it should.

“One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media. That combination hurt Jewish people and must never be repeated.

“My sincere hope is that relations with Jewish communities can be rebuilt and those fears overcome. While I do not accept all of its findings, I trust its recommendations will be swiftly implemented to help move on from this period.”

Is there anything in there that you'd say is incorrect?

 

[Idris2002]

That was about 75 years ago, at the end of a world war.

What's your point, caller?

Re: the anti-semitism stuff. JC wasn't an anti-semite, and the anti-semitism charges were cynically exploited by cynical people. But it was only possible to exploit them because anti-semitism is a real thing, with real consequences for people. . . JC wasn't an anti-semite, but his understanding of the phenomenon could have been a lot better, and if it had been, and if that had been properly represented in his politics, then it would have been a lot harder to smear him.

And the importance of that smear shouldn't have been overestimated either. The 2019 election was lost due to Brexit, and not due to the anti-semitism issue. It's all history now, of course.

 

[skyscraper101]

BBC (along with quite a lot of the media as I recall) hasn't exactly been fair in its reporting of Corbyn

This was his statement:




Is there anything in there that you'd say is incorrect?

Yep his reading of the room. Again.

I do not accept all of its findings

dramatically overstated

political reasons

He hands it them on a plate and then moans about the consequences. He's learned nothing.

 

[Pickman's model]

What contemporary reports? I'm referencing what the BBC reported here

there are more extensive quotes from corbyn's facebook statement in the guardian article here Jeremy Corbyn rejects overall findings of EHRC report on antisemitism in Labour. (e2a: i see two sheds has the full statement above)

my argument was based on my recollection of flicking through the 2019 book 'bad news for labour'. according to this c4 fact check FactCheck: Corbyn’s claim that Labour antisemitism numbers are ‘exaggerated’ there's no real way of knowing precisely how many complaints of anti-semitism were made before administrative changes after formby became general secretary in 2018. i hadn't realised the shortcomings of the poll within that book about the number of people who reported thinking there was more anti-semitism in the party than was the case. however, the way in which anti-semitism became the favourite weapon to beat corbyn with made me - and it seems quite a lot of other people - believe that there were a great number of anti-semites in the party, rather than (at least post-formby's changes) complaints made against about 0.3%, even though in a party of half a million or so that equates to a reasonable number of people.

so i think corbyn was right to believe that the scale of the outcry was dramatically overstated in comparison to the scale of the number of people accused of anti-semitism, and that the issue was weaponised by his opponents to damage his leadership. we've detailed at great length the vast array of accusations hurled at corbyn by labour mps, and for me this is the one which they finally settled on to fuck him up. sure, he's many failings, i don't think he's an idol with only feet of clay but legs too if not body and arms. but he underwent orchestrated campaigns of vilification which no other party leader, not even the atrocious liz truss or boris johnson, suffered, and for me it says a lot about his opponents that they were prepared to weaponise accusations of racism to eject him.

 

[Idris2002]

His response to "are you an anti-semite" should have been "come out on the street and say that to my face. You cunt".

 

[sleaterkinney]

What's your point, caller?

You would be in your 90s if you remembered that victory.

 

[Pickman's model]

You would be in your 90s if you remembered that victory.

strange, i know people in their 80s who can recall it.

 

[Idris2002]

You would be in your 90s if you remembered that victory.

Did your granny never tell about how "and then poor James Connolly was tied to a chair and shot by the Evil Brits, even though he was dying of his wounds anyway"?

That's what I mean by historical memory. Once the NHS is gone, UK people will be sorry after it - and if they have sense they'll pass the story on to the younger generations.

 

[two sheds]

Yep his reading of the room. Again.





He hands it them on a plate and then moans about the consequences. He's learned nothing.

So nothing in there that you'd say was actually incorrect?

He disagreed with the findings. Much like the Panorama programme it depends who in the party you listen to. We've since discovered that the complaints procedure was sabotaged and delayed by right wingers in the party who were responsible for implementing (who Starmer is quite happy to still have in the party) and were actively working against Corbyn (and seem to have been the source of many of the anti-semitism smears).

As I recall the one time Corbyn did try to get involved in the procedure was with Ken Livingstone, when he asked for the procedure to be speeded up. This was the 'political interference' he was then criticized for.

 

[Idris2002]

So nothing in there that you'd say was actually incorrect?

He disagreed with the findings. Much like the Panorama programme it depends who in the party you listen to. We've since discovered that the complaints procedure was sabotaged and delayed by right wingers in the party who were responsible for implementing (who Starmer is quite happy to still have in the party) and were actively working against Corbyn (and seem to have been the source of many of the anti-semitism smears).

As I recall the one time Corbyn did try to get involved in the procedure was with Ken Livingstone, when he asked for the procedure to be speeded up. This was the 'political interference' he was then criticized for.

It's not that nothing he says there was incorrect, it was the failure to connect on the same visceral level that the smears appealed to. "You fucking cunts, you have the barefaced cheek to think you can exploit anti-semitism, the ideology which murdered six million people, to score political points?" - that's the spirit that was required.

 

[skyscraper101]

so i think corbyn was right to believe that the scale of the outcry was dramatically overstated in comparison to the scale of the number of people accused of anti-semitism, and that the issue was weaponised by his opponents to damage his leadership.

I agree. I think this too. He's not anti-Semite and that's clear to anyone with a brain. However there were clearly issues within Labour on his watch and he got utterly played by his opponents. That's the issue. His failure to get it, or even learn from it. He pours fuel on the fire and acts surprised when there are consequences.

 

[two sheds]

I agree. I think this too. He's not anti-Semite and that's clear to anyone with a brain. However there were clearly issues within Labour on his watch and he got utterly played by his opponents. That's the issue. His failure to get it, or even learn from it. He pours fuel on the fire and acts surprised when there are consequences.

I agree. What should he have said though?

 

[skyscraper101]

I agree. What should he have said though?

“Antisemitism is absolutely abhorrent, wrong and responsible for some of humanity’s greatest crimes. As Leader of the Labour Party I was always determined to eliminate all forms of racism and root out the cancer of antisemitism. I have campaigned in support of Jewish people and communities my entire life and I will continue to do so.

“The EHRC’s report shows that when I became Labour leader in 2015, the Party’s processes for handling complaints were not fit for purpose. Reform was then stalled by an obstructive party bureaucracy. But from 2018, Jennie Formby and a new NEC that supported my leadership made substantial improvements, making it much easier and swifter to remove antisemites. My team acted to speed up, not hinder the process.

“Anyone claiming there is no antisemitism in the Labour Party is wrong. Of course there is, as there is throughout society, and sometimes it is voiced by people who think of themselves as on the left.
“Jewish members of our party and the wider community were right to expect us to deal with it, and I regret that it took longer to deliver that change than it should.

“One antisemite is one too many, but the scale of the problem was also dramatically overstated for political reasons by our opponents inside and outside the party, as well as by much of the media. That combination hurt Jewish people and must never be repeated.

“My sincere hope is that relations with Jewish communities can be rebuilt and those fears overcome. While I do not accept all of its findings, I trust its recommendations will be swiftly implemented to help move on from this period.”

^ This.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I agree. I think this too. He's not anti-Semite and that's clear to anyone with a brain. However there were clearly issues within Labour on his watch and he got utterly played by his opponents. That's the issue. His failure to get it, or even learn from it. He pours fuel on the fire and acts surprised when there are consequences.

Kind of. I would think he was also angry that the way he had tried to deal with it had been ignored/misrepresented. He hadn't ignored antisemitism on his watch. Far from it.

So sure, that statement includes something that shows naivety. But maybe he was fucked off with constantly being portrayed as something he absolutely was not. For a lifelong anti-racism campaigner, I can imagine that was pretty galling, particularly given the kind of arseholes it was coming from - arseholes who were very much not lifelong anti-racism campaigners.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Kind of. I would think he was also angry that the way he had tried to deal with it had been ignored/misrepresented. He hadn't ignored antisemitism on his watch. Far from it.

So sure, that statement includes something that shows naivety. But maybe he was fucked off with constantly being portrayed as something he absolutely was not. For a lifelong anti-racism campaigner, I can imagine that was pretty galling, particularly given the kind of arseholes it was coming from - arseholes who were very much not lifelong anti-racism campaigners.

Yeah agreed, the anti-Semitism accusations against him just crept up and up didn't they - from 'well he's not an anti-semite but there is anti-semitism in the Labour party' to 'well actually he is an anti-Semite' to 'he's basically Hitler.' It's hardly surprising he pushed back. And like with the last example this is from after he was leader anyway so it was a bit late for him to play it better, it didn't really matter (I suppose you can say it gave Starmer the excuse to push him out but he'd have found something anyway).

 

[skyscraper101]

Kind of. I would think he was also angry that the way he had tried to deal with it had been ignored/misrepresented. He hadn't ignored antisemitism on his watch. Far from it.

So sure, that statement includes something that shows naivety. But maybe he was fucked off with constantly being portrayed as something he absolutely was not. For a lifelong anti-racism campaigner, I can imagine that was pretty galling, particularly given the kind of arseholes it was coming from - arseholes who were very much not lifelong anti-racism campaigners.

I agree with all of that. He would've been right to feel pissed off at the circus created about him. My issue has always been his incompetence, not his sentiment.

 

[two sheds]

^ This.

Nope I don't think that would have been enough - all still the generic antisemitism statements that you pointed out above. He'd still have been banned for not admitting full personal responsibility. And if he'd accepted full personal responsibility he'd have been banned for bringing the Labour party into disrepute because he had admitted that he was responsible for the antisemitism in it.

Whatever he said Starmer and the media would have jumped on it for not being enough. Remember the front page headlines suggesting he was spitting in the faces of the war dead because he didn't bow low enough?

I can't find the Douglas Adams quote but it's along the lines of If you've got a god who goes around leaving hats on the pavement with bricks under them then you're altogether screwed. The whole of the UK print and tv media against him with the 'left wing' Guardian pretty well the worst of them.

Fuck all he could do aside from Idris2002's approach at which admittedly Starmer and the media would all have thrown up their hands and said "It's a fair cop, you've got us there guvner"

 

[sleaterkinney]

I agree. What should he have said though?

All he had to do was accept the report. Without carping.

 

[Idris2002]

Yeah agreed, the anti-Semitism accusations against him just crept up and up didn't they - from 'well he's not an anti-semite but there is anti-semitism in the Labour party' to 'well actually he is an anti-Semite' to 'he's basically Hitler.' It's hardly surprising he pushed back. And like with the last example this is from after he was leader anyway so it was a bit late for him to play it better, it didn't really matter (I suppose you can say it gave Starmer the excuse to push him out but he'd have found something anyway).

If he had pushed back at the earliest point, and come out blasting from both barrels, that would have made it a lot harder to "bad jacket" him. But that would have taken an understanding of anti-semitism that saw it as more than just a "legacy issue".

 

[Plumdaff]

Which victory is this?. Did the left bring it about?.

I don't think Starmer wanted to kick him out, but once he moaned about the enquiry there was no other option.
It's now much more valuable because he can point to a clear split between him and Corbyn.

Weirdly not mentioned on the motion to kick him out. A cynic might think that the EHRC stuff wouldn't stand up to legal scrutiny.

And if being an electoral liability - which is the official reason to kick him out - is such a failing, maybe the chief architect of the disastrous 2019 Brexit policy should step forward for expulsion too.

 

[Idris2002]

All he had to do was accept the report. Without carping.

Fuck me, are you genuinely this naive?

 

[tommers]

All he had to do was accept the report. Without carping.

Nonsense. It was clear right from the start of this whole thing that this was the desired outcome. They tried lots of different things, they saw this worked and then hammered that until he first was removed as LOTO and then as a Labour MP and finally, they hope, as an independent MP. This is part of the right faction of the Labour Party asserting control of the Party and if it wasnt this statement then it would have been anything else that he said in the future.

As for his statement, it would be weird of a political opponent not to "dramatically overstate" something they see as a weakness. They know that, this is just another excuse to exert their control.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

'This isn't as big a problem as people make out.'

See how he doesn't understand the scale of the problem?

'This is a big problem as people make out.'

See how antisemitism was a problem under Corbyn? Even he admits it.

Tails I win. Heads you lose.

 

[kebabking]

Just to check, is this entirely innocent bloke you're talking about the same Jeremy Corbyn who went on Press TV - the one of the most anti-Semitic media outlets in the world - and used the phrase 'the unseen hand of Israel' while they were talking about the US?

The one who's friends with anti-Semites?

The one who, despite being*a lifelong anti-racism campaigner* failed to notice blinding obvious anti-Semitic tropes when 'liking' stuff?

Where has all this fire come from, asks the man who bathes in unleaded and handed his enemies a match...

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There were people pushing the idea that a Corbyn-led government would pose a danger to Jewish people in the UK. David 'Blackface' Baddiel was one of them. Corbyn had his clueless moments for sure, but wankers like Baddiel were far worse.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Just to check, is this entirely innocent bloke you're talking about the same Jeremy Corbyn who went on Press TV - the one of the most anti-Semitic media outlets in the world - and used the phrase 'the unseen hand of Israel' while they were talking about the US?

The one who's friends with anti-Semites?

The one who, despite being*a lifelong anti-racism campaigner* failed to notice blinding obvious anti-Semitic tropes when 'liking' stuff?

Where has all this fire come from, asks the man who bathes in unleaded and handed his enemies a match...

Or hosted an event called "The misuse of the Holocaust for political purposes" on Holocaust memorial day?

 

[The39thStep]

Fuck me, are you genuinely this naive?

The Hammer of the Left

 

[sleaterkinney]

Fuck me, are you genuinely this naive?

He would still be a Labour mp and could go to his stwc marches.

 

[Pickman's model]

Or hosted an event called "The misuse of the Holocaust for political purposes" on Holocaust memorial day?

you're being very economical with the truth there e2a that being the title of a talk delivered by someone who knew quite a bit about the holocaust, a survivor of the slaughter

 

[sleaterkinney]

The Hammer of the Left

I reckon he could murder someone on Islington high street and some people would be like "well, no one said he was perfect..."