J30 strike: NUT, PCS, UCU, ATL call for a general strike on June 30th

[belboid]

Defined benefit pensions and the final salary schemes that many public servants still enjoy have largely stopped in the private sector. If we compare the average pension across the country of just £3,900 a year to that of an index-linked £24,000 for a teacher retiring at 60 after 40 years of service, it is clear what the size of this disparity is. It should also be remembered that this pension does not come out of savings that have accumulated over a working life. Most public sector schemes in the UK are "unfunded", meaning that payouts come from current taxpayers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/30/public-sector-pensions-fair

oh look, you're answering a completely different question, what a surprise!

Teachers pensions are covered by the amount teachers pay in. They pay their pension into general taxation, and get paid out of general taxation. they pay in more than they get out. you do not subsidise them one penny. Dont whinge because they get a pension than you, organise to get yourself a better one.

 

[Belushi]

What's IWW?

And I don't want private sector people to have terrible pensions. I just don't know why they think they should have better pensions than private sector workers.

They dont - they think you should follow their example and fight against your employer ripping you off.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Somebody correct me here, but is that possible? that would mean starting at the age of 20, and teachers all have to have degrees, then a PGCE afaik.. so there's no possibility of getting 40 years service and retiring at 60..
the average teacher pension is around 10k .. why don't you quote a figure that is real, not one that is obviously made up?

So still considerably better than the average pension of £3,900. Thanks for confirming that public sector pensions are better than private.

 

[BigTom]

just to say again, the teachers pension scheme was audited in 2007, and found to be sustainable and affordable. The Civil Service scheme was looked at by NAO and Public Accounts Committee and found to be sustainable and affordable. The NHS Pensions scheme ran a surplus of £2bn last year..
public sector pensions are affordable. This is simply an attack on public sector workers. They are attacking pensions rather than pay directly because they know that they can divide the public/private sector on pensions cos private sector pensions are so fucking terrible.

EoY you are playing straight into their hands. If, as it seems, you think that £3.9k average private sector pension is a disgrace compared to the public sector pensions (ave. around £4k I think for public sector or maybe it was civil service, that might have been £7k..) why don't you want private sector pensions to be better?

 

[fractionMan]

oh look, you're answering a completely different question, what a surprise!

Teachers pensions are covered by the amount teachers pay in. They pay their pension into general taxation, and get paid out of general taxation. they pay in more than they get out. you do not subsidise them one penny. Dont whinge because they get a pension than you, organise to get yourself a better one.

Perhaps now she'll realise why that gumph about envy she was spouting on the cleaner thread is bollocks.

 

[madzone]

Is there a facepalm big enough?

 

[_angel_]

It's really pretty desperate stuff "the public sector" v "the private sector" you can't generalise like that, it all depends what your job is in the first place, and how much you're being paid.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

They dont - they think you should follow their example and fight against your employer ripping you off.

How do you suggest I fight my employer? A tiny business which can't afford to pay me to have a day off when teachers go on strike, and also can't afford to provide me with a pension scheme.

 

[Belushi]

Defined benefit pensions and the final salary schemes that many public servants still enjoy have largely stopped in the private sector. [/url]

Wouldnt you be better off asking why this is? Especially as those at the top have seen their own wealth increases exponentially during the same period?

 

[fractionMan]

I expect your boss pays his cleaner with the pension contributions he doesn't make for you.

 

[BigTom]

So still considerably better than the average pension of £3,900. Thanks for confirming that public sector pensions are better than private.

Yes. considerably better. Now, why would reducing public sector pensions be a good thing? what effect will that have on private sector pensions? Why don't you want people to have a decent retirement?
(also worth noting that for public sector as a whole, the average is around £4k so really not that different)

 

[MellySingsDoom]

How do you suggest I fight my employer? A tiny business which can't afford to pay me to have a day off when teachers go on strike, and also can't afford to provide me with a pension scheme.

Once again: What would you do if your child was ill on a school day? Send them to school anyway? Leave the child at home by itself? Let somebody else look after them?

 

[Belushi]

How do you suggest I fight my employer? A tiny business which can't afford to pay me to have a day off when teachers go on strike, and also can't afford to provide me with a pension scheme.

They'll be legally obliged to provide you with one soon.

How much money are the owners taking out of the business?

 

[past caring]

So still considerably better than the average pension of £3,900. Thanks for confirming that public sector pensions are better than private.

This wouldn't be "the politics of envy" you lot are so keen to bang on about would it?

 

[belboid]

So still considerably better than the average pension of £3,900. Thanks for confirming that public sector pensions are better than private.

Are you as dishonest in your normal working life? No wonder you get paid shit then

 

[ElizabethofYork]

So. We've established that public sector workers get considerably better pensions than private sector workers. At last we're getting somewhere!

 

[belboid]

So. We've established that public sector workers get considerably better pensions than private sector workers. At last we're getting somewhere!

fuck me, its phildwyer in a dress! 'We've established' arf arf. You've established nothing other than your stupidity, no one has ever denied that public sector pensions are, on average, better than private ones. Find one quote from here that says otherwise.

 

[ymu]

Defined benefit pensions and the final salary schemes that many public servants still enjoy have largely stopped in the private sector. If we compare the average pension across the country of just £3,900 a year to that of an index-linked £24,000 for a teacher retiring at 60 after 40 years of service, it is clear what the size of this disparity is. It should also be remembered that this pension does not come out of savings that have accumulated over a working life. Most public sector schemes in the UK are "unfunded", meaning that payouts come from current taxpayers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/30/public-sector-pensions-fair

Why are you comparing an average for the private sector with a maximum pension entitlement in the public sector.

Go and find like-for-like figures. If you do it yourself, you might actually learn something.

You are ridiculously easy to mug off. Or a paid propagandist. My money is on the second.

Urban, we have our very own Tory astro-turfer.

 

[Looby]

Defined benefit pensions and the final salary schemes that many public servants still enjoy have largely stopped in the private sector. If we compare the average pension across the country of just £3,900 a year to that of an index-linked £24,000 for a teacher retiring at 60 after 40 years of service, it is clear what the size of this disparity is. It should also be remembered that this pension does not come out of savings that have accumulated over a working life. Most public sector schemes in the UK are "unfunded", meaning that payouts come from current taxpayers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jun/30/public-sector-pensions-fair

How does that respond to what I said? You asked why public sector workers think they should get better pensions that private sector. I said they don't.

WE DO NOT WANT BETTER PENSIONS THAN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, WE WANT TO MAINTAIN WHAT WE HAVE. WE ALSO WANT EVERYONE TO HAVE FAIR PAY AND PENSIONS

Is that clear now because I'm starting to wonder if I am using the same language.

 

[William of Walworth]

So. We've established that public sector workers get considerably better pensions than private sector workers. At last we're getting somewhere!

Why do you want to reduce public sector pensions** rather than increase private sector ones then? Answer BigTom's questions!

**You claimed at one point that you don't want that, but think through the logical conclusion of your anti public sector resentment.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

fuck me, its phildwyer in a dress! 'We've established' arf arf. You've established nothing other than your stupidity, no one has ever denied that public sector pensions are, on average, better than private ones. Find one quote from here that says otherwise.

Certainly.

we don't! Jesus festering christ, how many times do we have to say it?

 

[ymu]

So still considerably better than the average pension of £3,900. Thanks for confirming that public sector pensions are better than private.

Is that average a mean or median? You need to tell us or it's meaningless.

Now go and find the mean and median for the public sector.

Then post them.

 

[BigTom]

Why are you comparing an average for the private sector with a maximum pension entitlement in the public sector.

Go and find like-for-like figures. If you do it yourself, you might actually learn something.

You are ridiculously easy to mug off. Or a paid propagandist. My money is on the second.

Urban, we have our very own Tory astro-turfer.

It's not even a "maximum" pension entitlement - as far as I can see it's an impossible pension entitlement. I don't think it'd be possible to enter the teaching profession before you were 22 years old (degree + 1 yr PGCE) so at most with retiring at 60 you'd be at 38 years of service. Most teachers don't enter at 22 either, lots of people do a 2yr PGCE (conversion from their degree to a specialism) and often don't go straight from uni to do it.

 

[Looby]

Certainly.

You complete bellend. I was saying we don't want better pensions than the private sector.

 

[ymu]

How do you suggest I fight my employer? A tiny business which can't afford to pay me to have a day off when teachers go on strike, and also can't afford to provide me with a pension scheme.

You support every strike, so that your employer has to match better wages and conditions in order to get anyone to work for them. Oppose a strike, and you are cutting your own price.

Why can we not have a free market for workers? Why mummy, why?

 

[William of Walworth]

fuck me, its phildwyer in a dress! 'We've established' arf arf. You've established nothing other than your stupidity, no one has ever denied that public sector pensions are, on average, better than private ones. Find one quote from here that says otherwise.

Or Upchuck in disguise ....

That being so, I'm off ... for now.

 

[belboid]

Certainly.

that doesn't support your case at all. It doesn't say public sector pensions are worse than private ones, it refutes your suggestion that anyone thinks they inherently should be higher. Learn to read. then you might not get ripped off on your pension

 

[past caring]

So. We've established that public sector workers get considerably better pensions than private sector workers. At last we're getting somewhere!

All that has been established is your inability to engage with the facts - what remains unclear is whether that's because you're a dishonest cunt or a thick cunt, though I suspect it's the former.

 

[belboid]

let's not rule out the possibility of it being both

 

[stethoscope]

Certainly.

Either your reading comprehension isn't upto much, or you're being dishonest, as what was actually said was:

And i don't want private sector people to have terrible pensions. I just don't know why they think they should have better pensions than private sector workers.

we don't! Jesus festering christ, how many times do we have to say it?