J30 strike: NUT, PCS, UCU, ATL call for a general strike on June 30th

[BigTom]

Certainly.

this was in repsonse to you asking why "we" think that private sector workers should ahve a worse pension than public sector workers - we don't. We think private sector workers should get a decent pension, just like public sector workers.
I don't think anyone hasdenied public sector pensions are better than private sector ones, even though the averages aren;'t that far apart (£3.9k private - your figure - vs £4k public (figure quoted at various public meetings from a variety of union people over the last month.. 10k average for teachers, but if you;re going to compare the whole of the private sector, you;'re best off looking at the whole of the public scetor)

 

[stethoscope]

When you get a moment ElizabethofYork...

Besides, the more you push down public sector wages, pensions and conditions, the private sector will just look to push theirs down too through the same arguments and public services becoming privatised - none of this happens in isolation. Why do you support this, ElizabethofYork?

And, the answer isn't "But I don't want that" because thats exactly what will happen. The arguments being used by governments and proponents of privatisation now is that private pensions and conditions are worse than public, so let's bring the public sector into line. Will it end there?

 

[ymu]

The Stagecoach bus drivers in Oxford are on £30k with O/T, because there's always Cowley works.

When I lived in Cambridge, which has no manufacturing industry or great alternatives for bus drivers, Stagecoach were threatened with losing their licence for never having enough drivers to run the service, because too few people could afford to work for them. They bussed drivers in from Newcastle and put them up in hotels to save their skins.

I explained this to a South African who had fled the advent of democracy in his place of birth, and he told me that you just relocate the jobs.

Umm ... how do you relocate bus drivers? Nurses? Teachers? ...

 

[TruXta]

How? You get them on their bikes, that's how!

 

[MellySingsDoom]

So. We've established that public sector workers get considerably better pensions than private sector workers. At last we're getting somewhere!

Really? Let's be getting somewhere with this, then: What would you do if your child was ill on a school day? Send them to school anyway? Leave them at home by themselves? Let somebody else look after them?

 

[stethoscope]

Oh and ElizabethofYork, I've just been supporting some colleagues who are striking today - those that are on the low-end of pay and pensions, and some of them are losing a day's pay to go on strike action today.

Why? Because they know that fighting for their own work conditions, etc. means ultimately trying to protect everyone's. Just because you're in the 'private sector' doesn't mean it doesn't have any knock-on for you, it does - whether it be public services, the market trying to drive down costs and therefore workers wages, pensions, etc. Private sector workers need to not only fight for their own jobs and conditions, but realise that the public sector job struggle is theirs too.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

All that has been established is your inability to engage with the facts - what remains unclear is whether that's because you're a dishonest cunt or a thick cunt, though I suspect it's the former.

Oh dear. More foul-mouthery because someone has a different opinion from you.

 

[belboid]

£3.9k private - your figure - vs £4k public (figure quoted at various public meetings from a variety of union people over the last month.. 10k average for teachers,

4k for civil servants, I believe, and 5k for the public sector as a whole. Certainly only a tiny bit better than most private sector pensions for most people. And after many years on lwer wages, for which the pension is meant to (partially) make up

 

[madzone]

Oh dear. More foul-mouthery because someone has a different opinion from you.

Smoke screen....

 

[fractionMan]

shit troll is shit

 

[ElizabethofYork]

You support every strike, so that your employer has to match better wages and conditions in order to get anyone to work for them. Oppose a strike, and you are cutting your own price.

Oh, so you want them to go out of business because they can't afford to pay more.

Riiiiiight.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Oh dear. More foul-mouthery because someone has a different opinion from you.

Ahem. Be answering post #485 please.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

shit troll is shit

It's terribly childish to call anyone who disagrees with you a troll.

 

[BigTom]

Oh dear. More foul-mouthery because someone has a different opinion from you.

If you don't like people swearing/insulting you, don't engage with them. instead, engage with those of us who are talking civilly to you.. answer some of the questions that have been put to you.. start with this one:

What effect do you think worsening public sector pensions will have on private sector pensions?

e2a: if you don't want to be called a troll, why not actually engage with some of the discussion and answer questions..

 

[belboid]

It's terribly childish to call anyone who disagrees with you a troll.

whereas it is incredibly mature to ignore everyone whose points directly contradict yours, and to deliberately distort what someone else wrote in order to justify your own position?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Ahem. Be answering post #485 please.

Just seen this.

My child has been off sick a couple of times. Both times I asked a friend to help out. The friend can't help out today as she's on a picket line.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

@ElizabethOfYork - thanks for answering. Do you support/not support your friend's right to strike/picket, then?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

I support her right to do what she wants. I don't agree with her reasoning.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

I support her right to do what she wants. I don't agree with her reasoning.

Fine. Just out of interest (genuine question), is there no-one else who could've helped you out on this in an emergency>

 

[belboid]

so, she helps you out, and you stab her in the back. Nice.

 

[past caring]

Oh dear. More foul-mouthery because someone has a different opinion from you.

Nope. Solely because of your thoroughgoing and consistent dishonesty. On this and other threads. You're proved yourself not worth engaging with seriously.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

so, she helps you out, and you stab her in the back. Nice.

Of course I haven't stabbed her in the back. We've discussed this and she knows I disagree with the strike. We are mature enough to be able to disagree about things but still be friends.

 

[Lo Siento.]

same old bollocks really, everytime there's a strike, somebody always thinks society would be better if it was just every man for himself, and everybody doing their best to undercut the next person.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Of course I haven't stabbed her in the back. We've discussed this and she knows I disagree with the strike. We are mature enough to be able to disagree about things but still be friends.

Have you told her that you think she doesn't deserve her pension?

 

[stethoscope]

It's got to that point...

 

[past caring]

 

[ymu]

Oh, so you want them to go out of business because they can't afford to pay more.

Riiiiiight.

If they can't cover the full economic cost of their business, they do not have a viable business.

If workers can't negotiate, bosses are free to dedevelop us until we have worker dormitories all over Suburbia, busses pouring workers into London every day, and eventually wages that would make an Indian cotton-picker weep. And graduates will emigrate, because the best paid job they can get is in a call centre.

Want that? Carry on as you are. You spineless cunt.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Have you told her that you think she doesn't deserve her pension?

I've told her that I think public sector pensions should fall into line with the rest of the country.

 

[stethoscope]

I've told her that I think public sector pensions should fall into line with the rest of the country.

Why don't you want better out of the private sector?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

If they can't cover the full economic cost of their business, they do not have a viable business.

If workers can't negotiate, bosses are free to dedevelop us until we have worker dormitories all over Suburbia, busses pouring workers into London every day, and eventually wages that would make an Indian cotton-picker weep. And graduates will emigrate, because the best paid job they can get is in a call centre.

Want that? Carry on as you are. You spineless cunt.

So you want businesses to fold and people to be put out of work. How lovely you are.