Is the Left Wing more truthful than the Right Wing, and if so, why?

[Hotel Chocolate]

Not Cuba.

 

[krtek a houby]

Not Cuba.

You should ask Yugoslav

 

[The39thStep]

You should ask Yugoslav

Let them fight

 

[Yugoslav]

You should ask Yugoslav

I have been summoned. Also, your definition of left and right is flawed. Left isn't when throwing bricks at cops (MLs don't do that). Though we are against the bourgeois state, Marxism-Leninism is true socialism. I don't have a heart for anarchists and libertarian socialists.

 

[krtek a houby]

I have been summoned. Also, your definition of left and right is flawed. Left isn't when throwing bricks at cops (MLs don't do that). Though we are against the bourgeois state, Marxism-Leninism is true socialism. I don't have a heart for anarchists and libertarian socialists.

My definition?

 

[Yugoslav]

My definition?

That left-wing means you're an anarchist.

Referring to this statement you made out of a screenshot. -> Is the Left Wing more truthful than the Right Wing, and if so, why?

 

[Yugoslav]

This statement you made is propaganda aimed at discrediting socialism (Marxism-Leninism) and favoring neoliberal propaganda. Marxism-Leninism is left-wing and not right-wing as this liberal leftist outlook of the neoliberal bourgeoisie is spewing it from the West. Trust no libcom and anarchist!

 

[krtek a houby]

This statement you made is propaganda aimed at discrediting socialism (Marxism-Leninism) and favoring neoliberal propaganda. Marxism-Leninism is left-wing and not right-wing as this liberal leftist outlook of the neoliberal bourgeoisie is spewing it from the West. Trust no libcom and anarchist!

So the Idea of freedom is repellent to you?

 

[Yugoslav]

So the Idea of freedom is repellent to you?

Your meaning of freedom isn't really the same as mine. For leftists, freedom comes with the emancipation of the proletariat and the eradication of capitalism. Something that has to be first done with a realistic approach of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" as it is a necessary negation of the pre-existing contradictions that will eventually wither away once it fully negates capitalism which in turn, negates the need for a proletarian state for there would be no common threat after capitalism is done with. That is when freedom comes. Though in a socialist state, a worker would be more free with the material living compared to the standard of "freedom" in a capitalist dystopia of a bourgeois dictatorship.

 

[krtek a houby]

Your meaning of freedom isn't really the same as mine. For leftists, freedom comes with the emancipation of the proletariat and the eradication of capitalism. Something that has to be first done with a realistic approach of the "dictatorship of the proletariat" as it is a necessary negation of the pre-existing contradictions that will eventually wither away once it fully negates capitalism which in turn, negates the need for a proletarian state for there would be no common threat after capitalism is done with. That is when freedom comes. Though in a socialist state, a worker would be more free with the material living compared to the standard of "freedom" in a capitalist dystopia of a bourgeois dictatorship.

Yes, well I've read your posts and it seems your brand of emancipation isn't particularly friendly towards trans people, so bore on by all means, but I'd rather listen to posters who know what they're talking about.

 

[Yugoslav]

Yes, well I've read your posts and it seems your brand of emancipation isn't particularly friendly towards trans people, so bore on by all means, but I'd rather listen to posters who know what they're talking about.

Hey listen, if emancipating the workers can be done by authoritarian means (revolution) then I'm sure an effective medical transition is the necessary authority to be imposed to emancipate the transgender people who haven't medically transitioned.

 

[krtek a houby]

Hey listen, if emancipating the workers can be done by authoritarian means (revolution) then I'm sure an effective medical transition is the necessary authority to be imposed to emancipate the transgender people who haven't medically transitioned.

And if they don't wish to transition?

 

[Yugoslav]

And if they don't wish to transition?

Refer to the "Gender Idealism" thread where I get more in-depth on that.

In simple terms, no medical transition, then it's a "reactionary nightmare" as the CPGB-ML calls it.

 

[The39thStep]

Hotel Chocolate what's your steer on this?

 

[krtek a houby]

Refer to the "Gender Idealism" thread where I get more in-depth on that.

In simple terms, no medical transition, then it's a "reactionary nightmare" as the CPGB-ML calls it.

And this is why you're not going to convince me.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

I did and he said Communism is fantastic and I believe him!

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

Hotel Chocolate what's your steer on this?

I believe left-wingers and left-wing politics would be irrelevant if we had a fair electoral system. There are lots of funny people around doing funny things like Campaign for Real Ale, Dungeons and Dragons, reenactors, People who go to Star Trek Conventions, all of these people are oddballs, but they are irrelevant because they don't affect anybody else's life, the thing about left-wingers they do affect other people's lives and for 90% plus they ruin other people's lives.

The left is irrelevant in much of Eastern Europe, it is like they've tasted socialism and didn't like it, not even when they got the moderate version and it completely given it up. Most of continental Europe is going that way

i'll give you some examples:

All over Europe Left-wing Parties are in a serious decline, a decline permanently out of power and on some places, into complete oblivion, this phenomenon is most obvious in the former Communist Countries of Eastern Europe.

Poland –

The Polish Democratic Left Alliance was a huge Party in Poland, it once got 200 out of 460 seats in the Polish Parliament (in 2001), this Party also got 75 out of the 100 seats in the Polish Senate (also 2001), in 2015 it got zero in both Houses. This Party once had four Prime Ministers and one President to its name, now in Poland the Left is nowhere now, the combine united Left in an electoral alliance even failed to make the necessary 8% threshold needed to gain representation in the Polish Parliament let alone as separate Parties, the Death of the Left in Poland seems complete.

I will give you another example:

Czech republic:

The Czech version of the Labour Party the CSDP, went from being the largest Party in the Czech Parliament and took 32% of the vote and 74/200 seats in as recently as 2006, their Communist Party once commanded 19% and 42/200 seats in 2002,

Now: The two Left-wing Parties, the socialist, CSDP and the communist, KSCM, combined support went down from 37% in as recent as 2015 to the election last year 2021 where they scored 4% and 3% respectively and failed to meet the minimum 5% mark and lost all their (combined) 30 seats (out of 200), they are trailing at roughly 3% each now in the polls .

Bulgarian election:

The broad church, big umbrella party, the BSP for Bulgaria, which includes the communist Party, Socialist Party, and loads of other odd-and-sods Parties in an electoral pact scored just 8.98% in the last election, in the beginning of its inception it used to score 43% and get 125/240 seats. but now is on a slow and steady decline and only got 25 seats.

 

[krtek a houby]

"the thing about left-wingers they do affect other people's lives and for 90% plus they ruin other people's lives."

Is your life ruined by left wingers and where do your stats come from?

 

[Yugoslav]

I believe left-wingers and left-wing politics would be irrelevant if we had a fair electoral system. There are lots of funny people around doing funny things like Campaign for Real Ale, Dungeons and Dragons, reenactors, People who go to Star Trek Conventions, all of these people are oddballs, but they are irrelevant because they don't affect anybody else's life, the thing about left-wingers they do affect other people's lives and for 90% plus they ruin other people's lives.

The left is irrelevant in much of Eastern Europe, it is like they've tasted socialism and didn't like it, not even when they got the moderate version and it completely given it up. Most of continental Europe is going that way

i'll give you one example:

All over Europe Left-wing Parties are in a serious decline, a decline permanently out of power and on some places, into complete oblivion, this phenomenon is most obvious in the former Communist Countries of Eastern Europe.

Poland –

The Polish Democratic Left Alliance was a huge Party in Poland, it once got 200 out of 460 seats in the Polish Parliament (in 2001), this Party also got 75 out of the 100 seats in the Polish Senate (also 2001), in 2015 it got zero in both Houses. This Party once had four Prime Ministers and one President to its name, now in Poland the Left is nowhere now, the combine united Left in an electoral alliance even failed to make the necessary 8% threshold needed to gain representation in the Polish Parliament let alone as separate Parties, the Death of the Left in Poland seems complete.

This is because not only the obvious totalitarianism of the Rus' has made it "distasteful" to Eastern Europe but also the tone-policing and narcissism of the Western bourgeoisie aiming to take socialism from us and actively reduce it to bourgeois reformism is what made the left go in decline. The left in the West is not supporting the working class. The only way to regain trust of those in the West is if they for once do things accordingly to the proletarian interests, not bourgeois interests.

That is why leftism is in decline as you say, not just for Eastern Europe but in general in this accursed world.

 

[krtek a houby]

 

[Yugoslav]

"the thing about left-wingers they do affect other people's lives and for 90% plus they ruin other people's lives."

Is your life ruined by left wingers and where do your stats come from?

What is so "left-wing" about liberals? Calling liberals "left-wing" is right-wing reactionary talking point common in MAGA people.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

This is because not only the obvious totalitarianism of the Rus' has made it "distasteful" to Eastern Europe but also the tone-policing and narcissism of the Western bourgeoisie aiming to take socialism from us and actively reduce it to bourgeois reformism is what made the left go in decline. The left in the West is not supporting the working class. The only way to regain trust of those in the West is if they for once do things accordingly to the proletarian interests, not bourgeois interests.

That is why leftism is in decline as you say, not just for Eastern Europe but in general in this accursed world.

Yes, you are right and make perfect sense.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

"the thing about left-wingers they do affect other people's lives and for 90% plus they ruin other people's lives."

Is your life ruined by left wingers and where do your stats come from?

Russia, China, North Korea, Cambodia, cuba, people didn't have their lives improved by having a communist government.

 

[Dr. Furface]

Russia, China, North Korea, Cambodia, cuba, people didn't have their lives improved by having a communist government.

You mean authoritarian/totalitarian, and that’s a big difference.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

?

 

[JimW]

Russia, China, North Korea, Cambodia, cuba, people didn't have their lives improved by having a communist government.

Lives did improve for the great majority of people in China post-1949, partly just due to the end of warlordism and civil war, but also land reform gave vast numbers of people access to the means of subsistence where it had been precarious at best before. Life expectancy rose markedly and the population increased. Various commentators such as Sen have noted that even with mass extra-judicial killings and a massive policy-induced famine, there was still less excess mortality in China than India in the three decades after the two nations' independence, with a comparable large populations but hunger-related mortality and morbidity remaining far more widespread in India which did not distribute land in the same way. Various policies also greatly improved the lot of women, more than half the population.
It could have been a great deal better, to say the least, but you can't say it didn't improve on what came before for most; even with the wide reach of the political campaigns, the victims were a small minority, such being the nature of these things. And it was the most notably "communist" policies - land reform and women's rights etc - that brought the greatest benefits.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

You are insane if you think Chinese people's lives improved under Chairman Mao. Chairman Mao turned China into a gigantic concentration camp.

Land reform? The Chinese people had all the land confiscated from them and were forced to work on gigantic agri-plantation slave camps.

All of China would be as rich as Hong Kong if the Chinese hadn't had Communism.

 

[JimW]

You are insane if you think Chinese people's lives improved under Chairman Mao. Chairman Mao turned China into a gigantic concentration camp.

Land reform? The Chinese people had all the land confiscated from them and were forced to work on gigantic agri-plantation slave camps.

You know nothing beyond third-hand talking points. Here you are accusing others of not facing the facts and your whole position is based on fairy tales. You can admit the improvements that did happen without having to condone the crimes that went with them.

 

[Hotel Chocolate]

What improvements?

 

[JimW]

What improvements?

Just listed life expectancy and the status of women, access to land, no one selling children into servitude or concubinage as had been common etc etc. It's almost as if you are untruthfully asserting something without having done the most basic reading.