Is the Adur & Worthing bin strike basically a dispute between UNISON and the GMB?

[cupid_stunt]

I am trying to get my head around this, and hoping urban can help.

UNISON is the 'officially recognised' union for staff working across the jointly run services of Adur District & Worthing Borough Councils, whereas it appears the GMB started recruiting members last December, in the refuse, recycling and cleansing service, mainly it seems HGV drivers, and immediately announced a threat of strike action, whilst there was already on going talks with UNISON.

The talks were concluded with UNISON members accepting a pay rise of at least 7.75%, and 12.7% for HVG drivers, soon after the GMB held a strike ballot, and they are now in their third week of action, which could continue to at least 23rd April. Those pay raises do seem on the face of it to be fairly generous, and according to the two councils mean wages will be slightly higher than the average of similar local authorities in Sussex, and higher than the GMB accepted in one nearby council area after strike action. For some reason the GMB doesn't seem to have made public what their demands are over pay & conditions, so it's impossible to work out if the councils are being economical with the truth or not.

The GMB certainly got a better percentage increase of 19%, in Eastbourne, but without a comparison between wages there and in Adur & Worthing before all this, it's impossible to read much into that, because the Eastbourne members could have been on lower wages in the first place. On the GMB site they seem happy to have got a 7% increase in another area, but again without knowing the actual wages before & after that bin strike, it means little as a comparison.

The councils have been offering informal talks with the GMB for some weeks, but they have been insisting on formal talks, the difference seems to be around the GMB being 'officially recognised' together with UNISON, and the councils implies that's difficult under Trade Union laws without UNION's agreement, is that true?

Finally last week the councils got both UNISON & the GMB to sit down with them to discuss a joint recognition agreement, and the councils seemed pleased with how the talks went, but it's all gone somewhat tits up since.

UNISON has now decided they can't sit down with the GMB again, and made a formal complaint to the TUC over the GMB's actions instead.

The Trade Unions Congress (TUC) has been asked to intervene after allegations over the way the GMB moved into the refuse, recycling and cleansing service just before Christmas, recruiting members and immediately threatening strike action.

The complaint has been made by another union UNISON which is officially recognised by Adur & Worthing Councils to represent staff across all services, not just waste.

UNISON says it cannot sit down formally with the GMB and the Councils to discuss ways of resolving the strike and resuming the service to residents. Without both unions present at formal talks working towards a joint recognition agreement allowing both to negotiate on pay and conditions the Councils have had no choice but to postpone talks scheduled for today.

In an effort to keep the discussions going it has invited the GMB to continue talking informally. Councils are also still working towards more formal talks, hopefully with both unions, on Thursday. The Councils have also called on the TUC to step in quickly to support their call for a suspension of the strike.

At the heart of the UNISON complaint is that GMB leadership have breached Principle 4 of the TUC Disputes Principles & Procedures 2019 which concerns disputes when two or more unions are involved. This says ‘no official or unauthorised stoppage of work or action short of a strike will take place before the TUC has had time to examine the issue. The union or unions concerned are under an obligation to take immediate and active steps to get their members to resume normal working’

While recognition agreements can be informal they have a legal basis when it comes to negotiations on pay and conditions. Only a joint recognition agreement would allow both unions to represent all workers in the waste service and this is what Councils were working towards.

The Councils are still working hard to bring both unions around a table for talks on Thursday which were to be conducted by the mediation body, the Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service (Acas). It is a Crown non-departmental public body of the UK government whose aim is to improve industrial relations.

LINK

It certainly seems be basically some sort of tuft war, so, are the councils and indeed residents just trapped in the middle of a battle between these two unions?

Does UNISON have to agree before the GBM receives joint recognition?

Has anyone come across anything like this before & know what the TUC's approach is likely to be?

 

[moochedit]

I think tuc has rules about poaching members from another union.

As far as i can tell from this (pages 12 to 15). The Tuc has rules that say if there is a dispute between 2 unions a strike must wait until tuc rules on it...

https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/DPP_2016.pdf

We have had a bin strike in coventry since just before christmas which has now turned into a row between labour and unite (who are the bin drivers union in cov) after the council hired scabs to do the work.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I think tuc has rules about poaching members from another union.

As far as i can tell from this (pages 12 to 15). The Tuc has rules that say if there is a dispute between 2 unions a strike must wait until tuc rules on it...

https://www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/DPP_2016.pdf

Oh, thanks for that link.

No union will commence organising activities at any company or undertaking, in respect of any group of workers, where another union has the majority of workers employed in membership, and/or is recognised to negotiate terms and conditions, and/or is actively engaged in significant organising activity, unless by arrangement with that union. Neither, in such circumstances, will a union make approaches to an employer or respond to an employer initiative, which would have the effect of, directly or indirectly, undermining the position of the established union, or the union currently engaged in that organising activity.

So, as the GMB only has around 30% membership in the refuse, recycling and cleansing service, UNISON clearly has the right to complain to the TUC, but that begs the question why they didn't do so when the strike was first announced, rather than waiting until the third week of actual action.

All affiliates of the TUC accept as a binding commitment to their continued affiliation to the TUC that they will not knowingly and actively seek to take into membership existing or ‘recent’ members of another union by making recruitment approaches, either directly or indirectly, without the agreement of that organisation.

Or, even back in December when the GBM appears to have started to poach UNISON members, although I guess that would be hard to prove, as the GMB claims staff contacted them first rather than the other way around. Perhaps staff didn't expect UNISON & the councils to agree to what appears to be decent pay raises.

I did have doubts about what the councils had been putting out in press releases, but the deafening silence from the GMB towards their claims suggested that they were largely telling the truth

It certainly seems the councils have been acting reasonably in trying to arrange a joint recognition agreement with the two unions, and are indeed trapped in the middle of a dispute between the two, with residents the real victims, what a mess.

We have had a bin strike in coventry since just before christmas which has now turned into a row between labour and unite (who are the bin drivers union in cov) after the council hired scabs to do the work.

I read a report on that yesterday, we're only just starting to see overflowing bins, it must be horrific Coventry!

I see the proposed bin strike in Solihull has been called off after GMB members accepted a 5.26% increase, and yet there's between 7.7% and 12.7% on offer by Adur & Worthing councils.

 

[moochedit]

Oh, thanks for that link.


So, as the GMB only has around 30% membership in the refuse, recycling and cleansing service, UNISON clearly has the right to complain to the TUC, but that begs the question why they didn't do so when the strike was first announced, rather than waiting until the third week of actual action.



Or, even back in December when the GBM appears to have started to poach UNISON members, although I guess that would be hard to prove, as the GMB claims staff contacted them first rather than the other way around. Perhaps staff didn't expect UNISON & the councils to agree to what appears to be decent pay raises.

I did have doubts about what the councils had been putting out in press releases, but the deafening silence from the GMB towards their claims suggested that they were largely telling the truth

It certainly seems the councils have been acting reasonably in trying to arrange a joint recognition agreement with the two unions, and are indeed trapped in the middle of a dispute between the two, with residents the real victims, what a mess.



I read a report on that yesterday, we're only just starting to see overflowing bins, it must be horrific Coventry!

I see the proposed bin strike in Solihull has been called off after GMB members accepted a 5.26% increase, and yet there's between 7.7% and 12.7% on offer by Adur & Worthing councils.

To be honest because of the scab drivers (which i don't agree with) and also the "drop points" the council set up for people to drop rubbish off at in their cars it has not as bad as the pictures i have seen of rubbish piles in bin strikes in other citys. It may be worse in some areas of the city though as most people have cars near me. My own rubbish i have dumped in the skip in the car park at my work each day (my work place is just over the border in nuneaten and bedworth local authority).

 

[moochedit]

I think i read that unite are balloting for a bin strike in manchester and i think i read about bin strikes in northampton and cardiff somewhere? (No time to check right now)

 

[cupid_stunt]

To be honest because of the scab drivers (which i don't agree with) and also the "drop points" the council set up for people to drop rubbish off at in their cars it has not as bad as the pictures i have seen of rubbish piles in bin strikes in other citys. It may be worse in some areas of the city though as most people have cars near me. My own rubbish i have dumped in the skip in the car park at my work each day (my work place is just over the border in nuneaten and bedworth local authority).

Yeah, I wouldn't be too happy about scab drivers being brought in, but the "drop points" sound like a good idea, our tips have just gone over to their usual longer BST opening hours, which will help a bit, but apparently people trying to book slots are finding none are a available for at least 7-8 days.

I don't produce much waste, so I can go at least 6 weeks without my bin being emptied, after that I'll take it down the road to my mother's place, she never fills hers, and is just over the border in Arun district, where there's no strike.

Down the road, Brighton & Hove City has had at least a couple of strikes in recent years, it got well messy over there.

I think i read that unite are balloting for a bin strike in manchester and i think i read about bin strikes in northampton and cardiff somewhere?

Yeah, they're popping up all over the place.

 

[moochedit]

Having checked Manchester (unite) are currently voting with result on april 12th, cardiff (also unite) have voted to strike by 98% and northampton (gmb) are going to vote on a strike but i couldn't see any dates for that.

 

[StoneRoad]

Sounds an extremely complicated situation !

I don't envy anyone trying to sort out what seems to be turf wars, with the fallout affecting so many other people.

Maybe I am being naive here, but whatever happened to the idea of national wage scales, with local enhancements ?

 

[moochedit]

Sounds an extremely complicated situation !

I don't envy anyone trying to sort out what seems to be turf wars, with the fallout affecting so many other people.

Maybe I am being naive here, but whatever happened to the idea of national wage scales, with local enhancements ?

Some (not all) councils contract their bins to private companies who decide the terms and conditions of their staff.

Also in Coventry the Hgv drivers argument is that there is a shortage of hgv drivers generally and wages in the hgv industry are going up so they should get more. Councils argument is that can't raise it without doing same for other people in same pay grade and that bin drivers don't work the long unsociable hours and distances that other hgv drivers do. So both sides are still miles apart.

 

[SpackleFrog]

I am trying to get my head around this, and hoping urban can help.

UNISON is the 'officially recognised' union for staff working across the jointly run services of Adur District & Worthing Borough Councils, whereas it appears the GMB started recruiting members last December, in the refuse, recycling and cleansing service, mainly it seems HGV drivers, and immediately announced a threat of strike action, whilst there was already on going talks with UNISON.

The talks were concluded with UNISON members accepting a pay rise of at least 7.75%, and 12.7% for HVG drivers, soon after the GMB held a strike ballot, and they are now in their third week of action, which could continue to at least 23rd April. Those pay raises do seem on the face of it to be fairly generous, and according to the two councils mean wages will be slightly higher than the average of similar local authorities in Sussex, and higher than the GMB accepted in one nearby council area after strike action. For some reason the GMB doesn't seem to have made public what their demands are over pay & conditions, so it's impossible to work out if the councils are being economical with the truth or not.

The GMB certainly got a better percentage increase of 19%, in Eastbourne, but without a comparison between wages there and in Adur & Worthing before all this, it's impossible to read much into that, because the Eastbourne members could have been on lower wages in the first place. On the GMB site they seem happy to have got a 7% increase in another area, but again without knowing the actual wages before & after that bin strike, it means little as a comparison.

The councils have been offering informal talks with the GMB for some weeks, but they have been insisting on formal talks, the difference seems to be around the GMB being 'officially recognised' together with UNISON, and the councils implies that's difficult under Trade Union laws without UNION's agreement, is that true?

Finally last week the councils got both UNISON & the GMB to sit down with them to discuss a joint recognition agreement, and the councils seemed pleased with how the talks went, but it's all gone somewhat tits up since.

UNISON has now decided they can't sit down with the GMB again, and made a formal complaint to the TUC over the GMB's actions instead.







LINK

It certainly seems be basically some sort of tuft war, so, are the councils and indeed residents just trapped in the middle of a battle between these two unions?

Does UNISON have to agree before the GBM receives joint recognition?

Has anyone come across anything like this before & know what the TUC's approach is likely to be?

It's an interesting situation and thanks for posting about it, but worth remembering when comparing different councils/areas a lot will depend on what members are willing to accept or whether they want to strike for more. If for example the GMB website says in one place they got 7%, that might mean the members there said they would accept that without striking and the union is just saying "collective bargaining works."

I'd also say that 7.75% is not a generous pay rise since it's below RPI (9% in February) so I could understand why if the workers feel they can have an effective strike they would not want to accept it. Even the 12.7% for HGV drivers really isn't that generous because there is a skills shortage of HGV drivers. So the value of the work has gone up a lot.

Final point: if the GMB can go in and poach 30% of Unison's members then Unison have fucked up somewhere. Nobody is taking three weeks of strike action for the purposes of making GMB look good.

 

[SpackleFrog]

That link to the council seems to be saying bin collections are just not happening. Seems like more than 30% of workers on strike. And no scab drivers either unlike in Cov!

 

[cupid_stunt]

It's an interesting situation and thanks for posting about it, but worth remembering when comparing different councils/areas a lot will depend on what members are willing to accept or whether they want to strike for more. If for example the GMB website says in one place they got 7%, that might mean the members there said they would accept that without striking and the union is just saying "collective bargaining works."

I'd also say that 7.75% is not a generous pay rise since it's below RPI (9% in February) so I could understand why if the workers feel they can have an effective strike they would not want to accept it. Even the 12.7% for HGV drivers really isn't that generous because there is a skills shortage of HGV drivers. So the value of the work has gone up a lot.

Final point: if the GMB can go in and poach 30% of Unison's members then Unison have fucked up somewhere. Nobody is taking three weeks of strike action for the purposes of making GMB look good.

The GMB's recruitment has been focused on the HGV drivers, hence why they have brought the bin service to a standstill despite fairly small numbers being on strike, these are all line for the 12.7% increase, taking their salaries higher than those just along the coast in Eastbourne, where the GMB strike was settled with a worst outcome to what is being offered by Adur & Worthing councils.

 

[SpackleFrog]

The GMB's recruitment has been focused on the HGV drivers, hence why they have brought the bin service to a standstill despite fairly small numbers being on strike, these are all line for the 12.7% increase, taking their salaries higher than those just along the coast in Eastbourne, where the GMB strike was settled with a worst outcome to what is being offered by Adur & Worthing councils.

Ahhh, I'm with you now so its a drivers strike only?

 

[moochedit]

Ahhh, I'm with you now so its a drivers strike only?

I don't know about worthing but coventry is only the drivers on strike. At the start the collectors were given other jobs at the depo. Not sure if they are back on collections working with the scab drivers now or if scab collectors are also being used.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Ahhh, I'm with you now so its a drivers strike only?

Basically yes, only 44 have voted to strike out of a workforce of 151.

The impression I get is that the GMB started recruiting back in December by making all sorts of promises about them being able to get a better deal than UNISON, but then the 2 councils offered a better deal to UNISON than the GMB had secured elsewhere in Sussex after strikes. I wouldn't be surprised if the councils just looked at what was being agreed elsewhere and came up a slightly better deal assuming that would avoid a strike.

Worthing Council has good relations with their workforce, in the 25+ years I've been here there's never been any strikes, and IIRC the only time when jobs were cut was when it was agreed to combine all services with Adur Council, but those were all management jobs, dealt with by early retirement, voluntary redundancies and reassignments.

That was more expensive than it could have been, but they wanted to avoid compulsory redundancies and possible strike action, and it didn't really matter as long-term savings have run into millions every year since, which has been used to safeguard frontline services from cuts.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Latest updates, ACAS has been in town, this from the Sussex World news site -

The UK’s industrial dispute mediation service ACAS is at Worthing Town Hall today (Thursday March 31).

Officials are hoping to hold meetings with the GMB and UNISON and also representatives from the councils.
___
When it comes to the talks, it is unknown whether UNISON would attend.

Kevin Jenkins, Conservative leader of Worthing Borough Council, hoped ‘much can be achieved in the spirit of cooperation’ at these meetings.

He claimed they were in a situation of an ‘inter-union turf-war’ in that UNISON had raised issues about the behaviour of the GMB to the Trades Union Congress.

And, the latest from Adur & Worthing Councils -

Talks today (Thursday 31st March 2022) between Adur & Worthing Councils and the GMB union about finding a way to end the bin strike have been positive and productive. Representatives of the Councils and the union met with ACAS, the UK's industrial mediation service, at Worthing Town Hall this morning to discuss a way forward to end the dispute.

The talks were constructive and it was agreed that the Councils would draft a recognition agreement for the waste, refuse and cleansing department which the GMB and UNISON, the union already recognised at the Councils, will be encouraged to sign.

If the agreement is signed, it is expected that formal negotiations, facilitated by ACAS, will then begin to try to resolve the GMB's issues, with the hope that the strike will end as soon as possible.

No mention of UNISON attending, so I guess they didn't turn-up, so there's little chance of them signing this joint recognition agreement.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Update, UNISON didn't turn up for last Thursday's meeting, and still no word from the TUC over UNISON's complaint to them over the GMB's rule breaking behaviour, maybe that just told UNISON to get back around the table.

Yesterday, finally UNISON decided to meet with the councils, ACAS & GMB again, and everyone was hoping the joint recognition agreement would be signed off by all parties, so the councils could move forward with joint negotiations on pay and conditions, at which point the GMB has indicated they would suspend the strike action.

That, however, doesn't appear to have happened, as there's been no announcement on the agreement having been signed, and therefore suspension of action, just that there will be further talks on Friday. So, the only thing we do know at the moment is that another week have been wasted over this squabbling, and the bins remain unemptied.

Wednesday, 6th April 2022 - 6pm:​

Following talks held on 6th April, Adur & Worthing Councils and unions, UNISON and the GMB have agreed to temporarily adjourn and resume dialogue on Friday 8th April. All parties have agreed to make no further comment in the interim.

The talks aimed at resolving a GMB strike at the Councils' refuse, recycling and cleansing service concern firstly a joint recognition agreement with both unions which could lead to negotiations on pay and conditions.