Is obesity a disability?

[Louis MacNeice]

I am using it correctly, as any dictionary will tell you. Why do you have such a problem with the word?

Nope not any dictionary, just some.

The problem I have with using the word to describe obesity, unemployment, crime, anti-social behaviour or whatever else is that you are talking the language of infectious disease and diseased people with reference to socially produced and constructed problems. This leaves those identified as fat, criminal, jobless or anti-social as being simultaneously sick, threatening and in need of a cure.

On the other hand if we just refer to the scale of a problem - i.e. it is of epidemic proportions - then we are not making any pre-judgements about those experiencing it or what measures need to be taken.

In short medicalising obesity - which calling it an epidemic contributes to - is a limited and potentially dangerous approach to what is a wide spread and increasing experience.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Louis MacNeice, meet Pickman's Model

Thank you I already have...and it was a pleasure.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Santino]

Part of scientific enquiry is based on observations..

What are the other parts?

 

[Jezebelle]

Sorry realised I was posting in the wrong place.

 

[moon]

Santino h0 v h1 etc etc if you need to know then do a science degree

 

[xenon]

I'm busy with Xmas prep, Chief, so will need to go with a short response for now. I actually agree with a lot of what you and Doctor Carrot say with regards to food stuffs and society, and I think a lot needs to be done at a legislative level (short of banning certain foods). I acknowledge it is harder to make 'good choices' - however, I think for the majority of people there is still room for exercising personal responsibility when it comes to food intake and activity levels.

You effectively keep saying.
1. I realise there's a complex interaction of various factors behind the rise in obesity.
2. But some obese people just need to eat less and exercise more.

Which nullifies point 1 completely. Also given that you can't separate the subset of obese people that apparently just need to exercise more self control, from those caught up with the issues you claim to recognise, point 2 is a bit dead in the water too.

Why we're at it, let's sort out the problem of personal debt. People spending more than they earn. They just need to reduce expenditure or earn more.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Nope not any dictionary, just some.

The problem I have with using the word to describe obesity, unemployment, crime, anti-social behaviour or whatever else is that you are talking the language of infectious disease and diseased people with reference to socially produced and constructed problems. This leaves those identified as fat, criminal, jobless or anti-social as being simultaneously sick, threatening and in need of a cure.

On the other hand if we just refer to the scale of a problem - i.e. it is of epidemic proportions - then we are not making any pre-judgements about those experiencing it or what measures need to be taken.

In short medicalising obesity - which calling it an epidemic contributes to - is a limited and potentially dangerous approach to what is a wide spread and increasing experience.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Good luck with your campaign. I think you've got your work cut out for you though.

Gastric surgery: Is it really the answer to the UK's obesity epidemic?

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...swer-to-the-uks-obesity-epidemic-9938816.html

 

[Jezebelle]

Pre employment, all kinds of discrimination is acceptable (in law). Unless it's racial, sexual, or disability based, they can do whatever they want (in law). Even if it becomes accepted as a disability, proving it is another matter.

Not exactly. Though I know many still do, the equality act actually made it unlawful for employers to ask about the health or disability of job applicants, prior to a job offer. This includes how many days of sickness they've taken in the previous year etc. Employers can only ask health/disability-related questions for a few specific purposes, such as whether they need to make reasonable adjustments during the selection process, or for collecting statistics about the profile of job applicants. You're also forgetting a few other 'protected characteristics' like age, religion/belief and marriage/civil partnership. (Btw, I hope you're not one of those workplace Union reps that misinforms it's members about their legal rights? It's the "can do whatever they want" part that sounds familiar).

 

[Santino]

Santino h0 v h1 etc etc if you need to know then do a science degree

Can I just take the module in watching clips from the olden days?

 

[Jezebelle]

Disability is normally through no fault of their own so they deserve all the help & benefits that come from being registered disabled.

These days it's pretty meaningless to talk of "being registered disabled". People can still register as blind or partially sighted, or deaf but the vast majority of local authorities dropped the use of a 'disabled register' back in 1995.

 

[moon]

Can I just take the module in watching clips from the olden days?

Yep, you can learn a lot from viewing historical footage

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Good luck with your campaign. I think you've got your work cut out for you though.



http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...swer-to-the-uks-obesity-epidemic-9938816.html

It's not a campaign and thanks for engaging so thoughtfully with the content of my post.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[goldenecitrone]

It's not a campaign and thanks for engaging so thoughtfully with the content of my post.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Clearly I don't agree with you. If you think referring to an obesity epidemic rather than a problem of epidemic proportions has any significant bearing on the billion or so people who are experiencing this, then I can only shake my head in wonder.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Clearly I don't agree with you. If you think referring to an obesity epidemic rather than a problem of epidemic proportions has any significant bearing on the billion or so people who are experiencing this, then I can only shake my head in wonder.

Medicalising obesity isn't a solution; you'd be better off addressing that than shaking your head in wonder.

Louis MacNeice

 

[goldenecitrone]

Medicalising obesity isn't a solution; you'd be better off addressing that than shaking your head in wonder.

Louis MacNeice

What exactly do you mean by medicalising obesity?

 

[Johnny Vodka]

You effectively keep saying.
1. I realise there's a complex interaction of various factors behind the rise in obesity.
2. But some obese people just need to eat less and exercise more.

Which nullifies point 1 completely. Also given that you can't separate the subset of obese people that apparently just need to exercise more self control, from those caught up with the issues you claim to recognise, point 2 is a bit dead in the water too.

Why we're at it, let's sort out the problem of personal debt. People spending more than they earn. They just need to reduce expenditure or earn more.

It's not a contradiction at all. Look, I'm slim, but not because of metabolism, but because I do 2 * 1 hour weights sessions and run for ~2.5 hours in the average week. This generally means exercising on both weekend mornings, maybe only sitting down to PS4 or TV for max 2 hours over Mon to Thurs, eating a banana for 'elevensies' every morning, a cheese and tomato sandwich for lunch every weekday and padding out any hunger at work with fruit, as well as going veggie a few days a week (as a general rule I eat meat/fish only 4 times a week) and being sensible about carbs. I don't work the longest hours in the world, but in any week I still work prob 10% over my contracted full-time hours (I have no chance of getting out a walk at lunch time). So, yes, it's tough to keep a healthy weight, but, for most people, it's within the realm of choice. If I didn't adhere to the aforementioned regime, I would put on weight.

 

[xenon]

It's not a contradiction at all. Look, I'm slim, but not because of metabolism, but because I do 2 * 1 hour weights sessions and run for ~2.5 hours in the average week. This generally means exercising on both weekend mornings, maybe only sitting down to PS4 or TV for max 2 hours over Mon to Thurs, eating a banana for 'elevensies' every morning, a cheese and tomato sandwich for lunch every weekday and padding out any hunger at work with fruit, as well as going veggie a few days a week (as a general rule I eat meat/fish only 4 times a week) and being sensible about carbs. I don't work the longest hours in the world, but in any week I still work prob 10% over my contracted full-time hours (I have no chance of getting out a walk at lunch time). So, yes, it's tough to keep a healthy weight, but, for most people, it's within the realm of choice. If I didn't adhere to the aforementioned regime, I would put on weight.

OK, this works for you and a great many others. But it still implies those obese people with out a specific medical cause, who don't stick to a regime like yours, are just lacking willpower. It's a way of just feeling a bit superior isn't it.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

What exactly do you mean by medicalising obesity?

Placing obesity in the same (discursive) category as for example epidemics such as polio or flu; in doing so you construct the obese as dangerous vectors of contagion who need controlling, you place authority in the hands of various doctors and of medical practice, and you limit the solutions to the problems of obesity to medical ones, be they physical or psychological (e.g. gastric band surgery or psychotherapy).

All of which would be fine and dandy if overweight people were just genetically, metabolically or psychologically damaged drains on the public purse...but they aren't. They are people like me, like you and like JV. That is people embedded in a complex and at times bewildering tangle of economic, cultural and social processes; a tangle which sees some of us putting on weight to a point where we are called obese.

Louis MacNeice

 

[eatmorecheese]

Placing obesity in the same (discursive) category as for example epidemics such as polio or flu; in doing so you construct the obese as dangerous vectors of contagion who need controlling, you place authority in the hands of various doctors and of medical practice, and you limit the solutions to the problems of obesity to medical ones, be they physical or psychological (e.g. gastric band surgery or psychotherapy).

All of which would be fine and dandy if overweight people were just genetically, metabolically or psychologically damaged drains on the public purse...but they aren't. They are people like me, like you and like JV. That is people embedded in a complex and at times bewildering tangle of economic, cultural and social processes; a tangle which see some us putting on weight to a point where we are called obese.

Louis MacNeice

Well put.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

OK, this works for you and a great many others. But it still implies those obese people with out a specific medical cause, who don't stick to a regime like yours, are just lacking willpower. It's a way of just feeling a bit superior isn't it.

Nope, I don't feel superior about it at all - just demonstrating how (certainly for me and a few other people I know, some with additional family commitments) it's a choice to stay a healthy weight, involving hard work.

 

[equationgirl]

Nope, I don't feel superior about it at all - just demonstrating how (certainly for me and a few other people I know, some with additional family commitments) it's a choice to stay a healthy weight, involving hard work.

Therefore implying that anyone who doesn't follow a similar path is choosing to be lazy through phrases such as 'additional commitments' and 'hard work'.

And your whole post yet again reeks of superiority and a holier-than-thou attitude despite your protestations to the contrary.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Placing obesity in the same (discursive) category as for example epidemics such as polio or flu; in doing so you construct the obese as dangerous vectors of contagion who need controlling, you place authority in the hands of various doctors and of medical practice, and you limit the solutions to the problems of obesity to medical ones, be they physical or psychological (e.g. gastric band surgery or psychotherapy).

You keep claiming this, but I don't think anybody thinks of obesity as being in any way similar to an infectious disease, even when newspapers talk about obesity epidemics. I haven't seen queues of people down the GP surgery queuing patiently for their anti-obesity jab every winter. And why would it limit solutions of the problems of obesity to medical ones? There's plenty of information out there for people without them having to resort to gastric bands or psychotherapy.

All of which would be fine and dandy if overweight people were just genetically, metabolically or psychologically damaged drains on the public purse...but they aren't. They are people like me, like you and like JV. That is people embedded in a complex and at times bewildering tangle of economic, cultural and social processes; a tangle which sees some of us putting on weight to a point where we are called obese.

Louis MacNeice

Tell me about it. My bike has been gathering dust the last couple of months and mince pies and red wine are go.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They clearly do mean the same thing, to all but the most literal-minded pedants. What about a violent crime epidemic? Do you think that means that violent crime is an infectious disease, too?

To be fair "reaching epidemic proportions merely indicates a rise toward a "critical mass", whereas stating that something is an epidemic indicates you've already exceeded that "critical mass". That's not pedantry, it's a clear difference of meaning.

 

[killer b]

You keep claiming this, but I don't think anybody thinks of obesity as being in any way similar to an infectious disease, even when newspapers talk about obesity epidemics. I haven't seen queues of people down the GP surgery queuing patiently for their anti-obesity jab every winter. And why would it limit solutions of the problems of obesity to medical ones? There's plenty of information out there for people without them having to resort to gastric bands or psychotherapy.

Are you really this literally minded?

 

[goldenecitrone]

Are you really this literally minded?

No, I'm more metaphorically minded. Clearly.

 

[killer b]

Wow.

 

[ViolentPanda]

These days it's pretty meaningless to talk of "being registered disabled". People can still register as blind or partially sighted, or deaf but the vast majority of local authorities dropped the use of a 'disabled register' back in 1995.

Sensibly, too, in many cases, as the "register" was used to help calculate part of local authority grant aid, and was usually so far off of the actual number of disabled people that the LA almost always got under-funded.

 

[Ole]

They've fucked it with this one. What next?

'Need to come in at 12 at the earliest Bob, had 10 pints yesterday. Same for tomorrow probably. Thanks.'

 

[ViolentPanda]

Clearly I don't agree with you. If you think referring to an obesity epidemic rather than a problem of epidemic proportions has any significant bearing on the billion or so people who are experiencing this, then I can only shake my head in wonder.

Like a little nodding dog on the parcel shelf of a car.

How you name a phenomenon informs how you think about it. In the case of referring to obesity as an epidemic, that can mean that the social factors militating for obesity get disregarded in favour of the purely medical issues, so we get "solutions" like Xenical and Olestra, or gastric bypass/control surgery.
Thing is, unless you attack both sides of the problem, then the problem will always be with you. Now, that might be good news for surgeons and pharmaceuticals companies, but it isn't good news for people as a whole.

 

[ViolentPanda]

OK, this works for you and a great many others. But it still implies those obese people with out a specific medical cause, who don't stick to a regime like yours, are just lacking willpower. It's a way of just feeling a bit superior isn't it.

As I've said several times on this thread, and many times on other threads, I spent years on a calorie-controlled diet and an exercise regime (5-6 miles fast walking a day; about 15 miles of cycling up and down a valley per day; 2 hours of circuit training every weekday night at my boxing club) that made Mr. Vodka's regime look like a wimp option, and that just about kept my weight stable. So often it isn't about willpower, it's about a complex set of medical and social influences on the individual obese person. If Vodka can't understand that, it's because he doesn't want to.